If one of the candidates hasn't held a particular office he/she is running for, you have no way of knowing how they will vote. But again, if the best rational analysis by a person says both are equally bad, what is so good about voting just for the sake of randomly picking a candidate? If a particular ballot issue is something you don't care either way about, why should you flip a coin just to vote?
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I'm Not Voting Tomorrow, And Here's Why
- Thread starter The Central Scrutinizer
- Start date
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
If you lived in Australia, where voting is compulsory, you wouldn't.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
I don't live in, nor do I plan to move to Australia.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
BobTheDonkey
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2009
- Messages
- 4,501
Heh, the way I see it is thus:
If I actively choose not to vote (as Howie does), then I get to complain about everything that happens - because, hey, I didn't vote for that guy
Refusing to support any candidate is as much a part of the process as choosing to support a specific candidate over another. If I were to write in my own name, how is that any different from not even bothering to go to the polls?
If I actively choose not to vote (as Howie does), then I get to complain about everything that happens - because, hey, I didn't vote for that guy
Refusing to support any candidate is as much a part of the process as choosing to support a specific candidate over another. If I were to write in my own name, how is that any different from not even bothering to go to the polls?
Unabogie
Philosopher
I think a wise poet once wrote "You can choose a ready guide or some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".
Yes, indeed.
Yes, indeed.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
Thank you for making my point.
Yeah, but he was a Canadian.
Still, personally, this rankles a bit. Choosing not to vote, OK, fine. But choosing not to be involved in one's own governance at all, that's just stupid. Even if you think things are just great, you should try to keep it that way. You really do not want Mommy deciding what's best for you in the long run.
Again, voting is not just a right. It's also a responsibility. For representative government to function, you are required to provide input. Yes, it takes work. No, it's not always going to be satisfying or work out how you hope. Do it anyway. It beats the alternative.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Informal voting isn't the same as staying home and not voting at all. I voted informally for my first few elections, because I didn't understand the issues and I was young enough to believe that I didn't really care. As I got older I realised that I have a duty and an obligation to participate in the democratic process.
Yes, in may ways its a case of voting for the least worst, but that's part of the process too. No candidate is going to precisely represent my views, but some come close. We also use a preferential system in Australia, so even if the candidate I vote for isn't elected, my vote still counts. The American system just doesn't seem to inspire the same level of social responsibility that I feel. I live in a representative democracy - I have an obligation to vote, and I would even if it wasn't compulsory. I think you should too.
*shrug* YMMV, I guess. I just think that if you don't vote, and someone you don't like gets elected, I'll continue to say "well you should have damn well voted for the other guy then". It's probably none of my business though, so I'd better get off my soapbox.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Oh, and in our last election there was a massive stink when one guy (actually a retired parliamentarian) encouraged people to vote informally. No, it's not illegal, but it is considered extremely poor form.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
Yeah, but he was a Canadian.
Still, personally, this rankles a bit. Choosing not to vote, OK, fine. But choosing not to be involved in one's own governance at all, that's just stupid. Even if you think things are just great, you should try to keep it that way. You really do not want Mommy deciding what's best for you in the long run.
Again, voting is not just a right. It's also a responsibility. For representative government to function, you are required to provide input. Yes, it takes work. No, it's not always going to be satisfying or work out how you hope. Do it anyway. It beats the alternative.
Well, normally I would never intentionally rankle a guy in a sombrero, but I'm not voting. I have no confidence nor trust in anyone that's currently running. I may be stupid, but I have my principles.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
No, but it is the same as withholding my vote for candidates I don't want to vote for, which is what you said I couldn't do in Oz.
Either way I vote somebody I don't like gets elected. What to do?
Oh yeah, not vote for any of 'em.
I wish more people thought like you. You're a good man.
Then work to elect someone you do trust. Start somewhere.
Start at the ruddy city council level if you have to. You'd be surprised how much leverage you can have, simply because so many other people have the same defeatist attitude you do. Get involved.
Run yourself if all else fails.
No, I'm not kidding.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
I know you're not kidding, and I appreciate your (somewhat confusing) attempt to get me into politics but you have to realize, I'm just not that interested in politics. It's a slimy, nasty business filled with thieves and liars at the highest levels and armchair quarterbacks and sheep at the lowest. None of these groups are the types of people I want to be involved with. Even if I wanted to be involved, I'm not the type of person that compromises on things I believe in, and that seems to be the basis of politics. I can't lie, I have trouble with things like tact, if something seems stupid to me, I say so. I'm probably a borderline sociopath. Not political material.
Sorry, but I'm apolitical and proud. People on this board are always bragging about being atheists (I'm one too, BTW) and everyone pats them on the back for not buying into what they see as nonsense, even though millions of folks believe in some sort of god(s). I'm the same way with politics. I know lots of people who are heavily involved with politics on both ends of the spectrum. Their lives are no better than mine. In some cases they are worse. I have some liberal friends who damn near ground their teeth down to nubs during W's reign. Now that Obama's running the show, they're all pissed of that he hasn't done enough. WTF? How is being involved in this making their life better?
Or take my friend Sean. He was a hardcore third party voter his whole adult life. Green Party all the way, was Sean. He bought into the Obama hype and now he's kicking himself because it turned into just another presidency full of BS and broken promises. He believed Obama was going to do all the stuff he said he was going to do.
I'm glad there's people like yourself who care about this stuff. You keep up the good work, I'll be fishing.
But you do realize that atheism and being apolitical are totally unrelated, right? I can easily prove that political entities exist, and that they have profound sway over how we live our lives.
Politics becomes slimier when folks abhorred by it pack up and leave. Ignoring it only makes it worse.
Politics is never friendly. Even among the Founding Fathers there were bitter disputes and character assassination between them. But you're supposed to get angry, at least a little. Being angry sometimes means that you care.
As my old man always says, you're either part of the problem, or part of the solution. Luckily there are many ways to be part of the solution.
Anyway, I know I'm unlikely to change your whole world view in a few Forum posts, but someday you may think differently. Fight the apathy. It solves nothing.
Politics becomes slimier when folks abhorred by it pack up and leave. Ignoring it only makes it worse.
Politics is never friendly. Even among the Founding Fathers there were bitter disputes and character assassination between them. But you're supposed to get angry, at least a little. Being angry sometimes means that you care.
As my old man always says, you're either part of the problem, or part of the solution. Luckily there are many ways to be part of the solution.
Anyway, I know I'm unlikely to change your whole world view in a few Forum posts, but someday you may think differently. Fight the apathy. It solves nothing.
Howie Felterbush
Bow Tie Daddy
I wish I cared enough to get angry, but I've seen a lot of people get angry over politics and end up with nothing but an ulcer.
Tell your dad I may not be part of the solution, but I'm not part of the problem, either. I pay my taxes. I pay my bills. I'm not a drain on the system. My life is exactly the same under Obama as it was under Bush as it was under Clinton as it was under Bush. I'm working, I have a house and a car, a few goodies, an occasional vacation, a little bit for charity. I'm happy, and I accomplished it all without politics intruding upon my life. Can you see why I'm apathetic? Because it doesn't pay to care.
Don't expect to see any "Felterbush/Scrutinizer 2012" yard signs.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Flatterer!
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2001
- Messages
- 53,099
I can't believe this cannard keeps getting repeated as if it is true.
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2001
- Messages
- 53,099
That's what I'm wondering. Given how stupid a lot of people are, the last thing I want them doing is voting.
