I'm not religious enough to call myself...

[arthwollipot]

By that logic, any time someone says that they were in a fraternity, I know what kind of rapist they are.

 

[bluesjnr]

By that logic, any time someone says that they were in a fraternity, I know what kind of rapist they are.

Don't you mean wrongly accused rapists?

 

[Darat]

Don't you mean wrongly accused rapists?

Depends on how long the essay they had to hand in was.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm just going on what you said, friend.

Of course.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

J'accuse!

 

[theprestige]

For clarity, to me - and I am clearly The Authority on the subject - an anti-theist is someone who hates or is against, god/s.

By default, they are theists, because you can't hate or be against something that doesn't exist.

Anti-religion* is different and perfectly understandable for people who feel harmed by religion.

Like this:



*Anti-theism is probably a better term.

And yes, I am a pedantic prick.

No regerts.

In practice it translates to someone who hates theism and theists, and isn't afraid to make their hatred into a whole identity.

 

[theprestige]

By that logic, any time someone says that they were in a fraternity, I know what kind of rapist they are.

Works for me. Varies by frat, of course. Some are serious academic societies. Others are much more like what we've come to expect.

I think mostly it has to do with being the kind of person whose identity depends on group membership.

You being religious is one thing. You thinking it's important that I know you're religious is another thing altogether.

Same with military service. Serving is fine. Making your service history the larger part of your identity, maybe not so fine. The hapless Marine recruit who gets Semper Fi tattooed on him on his first liberty, for example. Probably more of a problem than the one who doesn't.

It's not about the group membership. It's about whether you feel the need to announce your membership. Or non-membership, as Gawdzilla does at the top of this thread.

 

[acbytesla]

Isn't a pretty good test of how important this is to you reflected by whether you would even click on this thread?

Like, it *is* kinda important to me. Throwing shade on Christians as a whole based on ... stereotypes?... isn't real slamming skeptical.

I cross paths with Christians pretty regularly, including my CCD teaching wife. They are by and large nice folks, often with the Salad Bar approach to the icky parts of theology. The only actual nasty people I run across in this issue are their anti-theist opposite number.

My issue isn't with Christians. My issue is with Christians that preach. If you want to share the "good news" with me, you damn well need to being open to me sharing my good news. But they're never open to it. Because my good news is you don't have to believe that crap.

Most Christians don't really have a clue what's in the Bible. They go to church on Easter and Christmas and hear the good stuff in the Bible. These people identify as Christians and might belong to the social group. But that's about it.

The "dicks" are the pastors passing the collection plates and asking people to tithe. Or the Christians that start out being friendly and then have no interest in you or your life when they find out you're an atheist.

 

[Thermal]

My issue isn't withe Christians. My issue is with Christians that preach. If you want to share the "good news" with me, you damn well need to being open to me sharing my good news. But they're never open to it. Because my good news is you don't have to believe that crap.

Most Christians don't really have a clue what's in the Bible. They go to church on Easter and Christmas and hear the good stuff in the Bible. These people identify as Christians and might belong to the social group. But that's about it.

The "dicks" are the pastors passing the collection plates and asking people to tithe. Or the Christians that start out being friendly and then have no interest in you or your life when they find out you're an atheist.

All well and good. I believe that disliking closed minded self-absorbed twats generally wouldn't warrant decades of threads with hundreds of thousands of posts, though? We are getting some traction with even moon hoaxers around here lately, so maybe not.

My issue, as so many others have lodged, is the 'generalizing by the worst actors' thing. Reminds me of That Thread, if you're feeling that.

 

[jimbob]

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant the religious ones. And I do understand why there are some very angry anti-theists around in the US; if you've been brought up in a fundamentalist environment, and then seen through it, being anti seems a reasonable reaction!

Yup, similar in the UK, although I tend to think the established religion stuff actually works towards a secular society.

I don't know about the other British posters but I have fond memories of school assemblies mostly full of people too apathetic about religion to ask for an exemption. Lots of going through the motions with zero pretence of belief. At least the old fashioned hymns were less cringe than the happy clappy ones where too many people who sung those did take it seriously.

 

[acbytesla]

All well and good. I believe that disliking closed minded self-absorbed twats generally wouldn't warrant decades of threads with hundreds of thousands of posts, though? We are getting some traction with even moon hoaxers around here lately, so maybe not.

My issue, as so many others have lodged, is the 'generalizing by the worst actors' thing. Reminds me of That Thread, if you're feeling that.

And yet no group has caused more pain and suffering through the centuries than the religious. It wasn't non-religous that flew planes into the twin towers or killed thousands of Protestants on Saint Bartholomews day.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Yup, similar in the UK, although I tend to think the established religion stuff actually works towards a secular society.

I don't know about the other British posters but I have fond memories of school assemblies mostly full of people too apathetic about religion to ask for an exemption. Lots of going through the motions with zero pretence of belief. At least the old fashioned hymns were less cringe than the happy clappy ones where too many people who sung those did take it seriously.

Being as I'm older than you, we didn't have exemptions, so everyone was pretending.

Best bit was before my voice broke, so I enjoyed the singing, even though the tempo was more Anglican sluggish than Methodist brisk. And these were Proper Hymns, the real thing.

After my voice broke I mimed...

 

[Helen]

Our school assemblies stopped having prayers and hymns in the 60s.

I read in a recent survey that around 34% of Americans are Young Earth Creationists, so I feel that being more passionate about your atheism is quite reasonable, if that's what you've grown up around. Here, finding a YEC would like finding a unicorn. Only far more boring. I could easily see myself shedding my aunicornism, and rejoice in my newfound faith!

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And you know that doesn't bail you, right?

Sorry, didn't mean to intrude on your private game.

 

[malbui]

Yup, similar in the UK, although I tend to think the established religion stuff actually works towards a secular society.

I don't know about the other British posters but I have fond memories of school assemblies mostly full of people too apathetic about religion to ask for an exemption. Lots of going through the motions with zero pretence of belief. At least the old fashioned hymns were less cringe than the happy clappy ones where too many people who sung those did take it seriously.

I had long been an unbeliever before I got to grammar school but I did quite enjoy the hymns in morning assembly because a few were real bangers that the music teacher played with real enthusiasm. For example, "Jerusalem" is a fine piece of work.

 

[jimbob]

Here, finding a YEC would like finding a unicorn. Only far more boring. I could easily see myself shedding my aunicornism, and rejoice in my newfound faith!

I actually have a now retired former colleague who is one. An interesting personality, as far as I could see he filtered everything through "does it agree with what I consider authoritative sources and regardless of what reality says".

As the Bible is pretty quiet about semiconductor device testing and coding for that, it didn't impinge on his field of work. And academically able enough to have studied Natural Sciences at Cambridge in the 70s.

But I did feel as though he'd slipped through a wormhole from the 17th Century. Possibly before the Restoration.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And you know that doesn't bail you, right?

We could agree that there is some non-zero number after navy guys who have raped children, right? So can I prop a halo on my head when saying:

"When someone tells me they are in the navy, I know what kind of child rapist they might be."

"Might be" ain't bailing you for ◊◊◊◊.

LOL

 

[acbytesla]

Our school assemblies stopped having prayers and hymns in the 60s.

I read in a recent survey that around 34% of Americans are Young Earth Creationists, so I feel that being more passionate about your atheism is quite reasonable, if that's what you've grown up around. Here, finding a YEC would like finding a unicorn. Only far more boring. I could easily see myself shedding my aunicornism, and rejoice in my newfound faith!

I wonder about that survey. Seems high even for the buckle of the Bible belt.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yup, similar in the UK, although I tend to think the established religion stuff actually works towards a secular society.

I don't know about the other British posters but I have fond memories of school assemblies mostly full of people too apathetic about religion to ask for an exemption. Lots of going through the motions with zero pretence of belief. At least the old fashioned hymns were less cringe than the happy clappy ones where too many people who sung those did take it seriously.

That and the fullest churches (and pretty much the only ones with a significant number of younger congregants) are the ones near good church schools.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I actually have a now retired former colleague who is one. An interesting personality, as far as I could see he filtered everything through "does it agree with what I consider authoritative sources and regardless of what reality says".

As the Bible is pretty quiet about semiconductor device testing and coding for that, it didn't impinge on his field of work. And academically able enough to have studied Natural Sciences at Cambridge in the 70s.

But I did feel as though he'd slipped through a wormhole from the 17th Century. Possibly before the Restoration.

And ex colleague of mine here in the UK was a YEC as was his daughter, they were both members of the UK offshoot of an American Evangelical Church. He also worked in IT and to be honest was one of the smartest people in the company his daughter was very smart too so I always found it quite shocking that they denied evolution. They were two of the nicest people I've ever met too though so I wouldn't have wanted to argue about it and even though my wife and I attended a couple of social events (quizzes) at their church they never tried to preach or convert us.

I ran into his daughter recently and found out that he'd recently died of a fast, aggressive, cancer. Obviously this itself was very sad news, but I was also sorry to find that she blamed it on the Covid vacine and was falling down that rabbit hole.