Illegal Immigrants Plan to Boycott May 1

[shecky]

Freedom of movement within a country, not between countries.

Why not? If goods can cross borders with relatively few checks, why not people? Does the value of freedom stop at the border? Should freedom be rationed as if there's a finite amount to go around?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I would, too. Imagine if we restricted movement of folks in rust belt towns, and forced them to stay rather than move to more prosperous places? Isn't that a bit ridiculous?

Yes, and we aren't talking about anything even remotely similar. Towns within a country are ruled by laws of that country. Countries have the sovereign right to restrict immigration to and from the country. Our government has decided that people are free to move out but not all people are free to move in.

Now imagine that we allow those people to move to an area where they can prosper and contribute to the overall economy, and make their own lives better?

While they avoid paying the taxes to that country and breaking the law by simply avoiding legal immigration. That's not right. Something is wrong with Mexico if there is such a large influx of people from there to here. They should, perhaps, fix their own country instead of becoming social parasites of this one.

With that newfound success, they can now send capital to the underutilized rust belt towns and get them rolling again.

Yes, they simply suck the blood out of one country and try to jumpstart another with it. Yet, you wonder why people have a problem with illegal immigrants.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Does the value of freedom stop at the border?

Yes, it does.

Should freedom be rationed as if there's a finite amount to go around?

Should people be free to move into your house without your consent?

 

[shecky]

Yes, and we aren't talking about anything even remotely similar. Towns within a country are ruled by laws of that country. Countries have the sovereign right to restrict immigration to and from the country. Our government has decided that people are free to move out but not all people are free to move in.

This is exactly the root of the problem. The government has taken no account of the free market forces that dominate the labor market. IOW, the government expects to centrally control supply and demand. Doesn't work with pot, didn't work with alcohol. Why would it work with labor?

While they avoid paying the taxes to that country and breaking the law by simply avoiding legal immigration. That's not right. Something is wrong with Mexico if there is such a large influx of people from there to here. They should, perhaps, fix their own country instead of becoming social parasites of this one.

If you are worried about them breaking the law, then make them legal. Estimates I've seen say most do pay income taxes. Not to mention SS, property taxes, sales taxes, etc. True, there are some jobs that are under the table. However, those jobs would likely remain under the table with citizen employees since they tend to be cash business and/or simply not worth the effort of making legit.

Yes, they simply suck the blood out of one country and try to jumpstart another with it. Yet, you wonder why people have a problem with illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants don't seem to be having much negative effect on the economy. Unemployment is low. Things are going OK. The US draws the highest motivated and most enterprising. And the more capital they send back home, the better it is for us, too, in the long run.

 

[shecky]

Should people be free to move into your house without your consent?

No. You can control who gets into your house.

Should I be able to invite people into my house without asking for the government's permission?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I highly doubt that illegal aliens fill out their info on a w-4 and that they pay income tax. That's like telling the government that they are there illegally and daring the government to deport them.

Illegal immigrants don't seem to be having much negative effect on the economy.

But they are having a social impact. They are there as a constant reminder that laws don't matter to people that aren't citizens.

 

[thaiboxerken]

No. You can control who gets into your house.

Should I be able to invite people into my house without asking for the government's permission?

The country is a house, the government is the owner.

 

[shecky]

I highly doubt that illegal aliens fill out their info on a w-4 and that they pay income tax. That's like telling the government that they are there illegally and daring the government to deport them.

Those requirements are usually met to satisfy the employers. If the employer is satisfied, what's the problem?

But they are having a social impact. They are there as a constant reminder that laws don't matter to people that aren't citizens.

What exactly is the social impact? Is it negative? Positive? How are such things measued?

We have to be real. Some laws really don't matter. For both citizens and non-citizens alike.

 

[Cleon]

I highly doubt that illegal aliens fill out their info on a w-4 and that they pay income tax. That's like telling the government that they are there illegally and daring the government to deport them.

Well, first of all, many of them arrive here perfectly legally and only become "illegal" when they overstay their visa.

Second, unless there's been a radical shift that I'm unaware of, the IRS does not enforce immigration. And a good thing, too--they can barely handle the workload they've *got*.

"Government" is not a monolithic entity.

 

[shecky]

The country is a house, the government is the owner.

You give the government a lot more elevation than it deserves. We're all merely tenants?

It still doesn't address the problem that the government's immigration laws ignore market demands. It rations immigration for unrealistic reasons. And as happens with bad laws, they are broken.

 

[HeavyAaron]

You give the government a lot more elevation than it deserves. We're all merely tenants?

It still doesn't address the problem that the government's immigration laws ignore market demands. It rations immigration for unrealistic reasons. And as happens with bad laws, they are broken.

Since you believe that laws which run counter to market demands are bad laws, do you believe in repealing minimum wage laws, child labor laws, gun control laws, drug laws, CAFE standards, etc.?

Aaron

 

[shecky]

Since you believe that laws which run counter to market demands are bad laws, do you believe in repealing minimum wage laws, child labor laws, gun control laws, drug laws, CAFE standards, etc.?

Aaron

Generally, laws protecting person or property are reasonable. Being an illegal immigrant isn't an offense against person or property, has marginal, if any, value.

We can go down the list of laws if you wish. Maybe for another thread?

 

[Just thinking]

One might wish to go here to see some of the banners displayed at some protest locations.

Funny, I have yet to see one that displays something on the order of "We broke your laws in coming here ... how can we correct this?"

 

[Manny]

Hah! Typical lefty rally, just as I said. ISO, ANSWER, SEIU, Che, the whole bit. But I didn't see Mumia! What the heck kind of rally is it without some love for the left's favorite cop-killer?

Chaps my nads to see those commie ****ers glom onto this cause.

 

[Cleon]

One might wish to go here to see some of the banners displayed at some protest locations.

Funny, I have yet to see one that displays something on the order of "We broke your laws in coming here ... how can we correct this?"

I like the way we can always rely on some schmuck with a camera to take photos of the farthest left-wing placards they can find, put them on a website, and try to paint them as representative of the demonstration as a whole.

 

[Just thinking]

I like the way we can always rely on some schmuck with a camera to take photos of the farthest left-wing placards they can find, put them on a website, and try to paint them as representative of the demonstration as a whole.

Yeah ... like this one.

 

[BPSCG]

I like the way we can always rely on some schmuck with a camera to take photos of the farthest left-wing placards they can find, put them on a website, and try to paint them as representative of the demonstration as a whole.

Makes you wonder, though, why all these hard-working Mexicans who love the American way of life so much don't kick the commies' sorry asses back to Berkley and Cambridge. "Hey, we came to America to get rich, idiotas. If we wanted to be poor, we'd have swum to Cuba, where we at least speak the language, estúpidos!"

 

[Cleon]

Makes you wonder, though, why all these hard-working Mexicans who love the American way of life so much don't kick the commies' sorry asses back to Berkley and Cambridge. "Hey, we came to America to get rich, idiotas. If we wanted to be poor, we'd have swum to Cuba, where we at least speak the language, estúpidos!"

Well, it must be because they're all communists, of course.

Talk about begging the question...

 

[Manny]

Makes you wonder, though, why all these hard-working Mexicans who love the American way of life so much don't kick the commies' sorry asses back to Berkley and Cambridge. "Hey, we came to America to get rich, idiotas. If we wanted to be poor, we'd have swum to Cuba, where we at least speak the language, estúpidos!"

Heh. Check out the pictures. Not a whole lot with actual immigrants and commie gringos in the same shot.

 

[BPSCG]

Well, it must be because they're all communists, of course.

Talk about begging the question...

Seriously, why don't they kick the commies' sorry butts? I mean, I realize a guy who digs ditches and speaks about three words of English isn't likely to be up on Marx and Engels, but you gotta figure there were organizers there who could put one and one together and realize people holding up Che Guevara placards aren't helping their cause any.