I'll throw a coal into this fire

[IXP]

If you want to read more about this energy, I suggest a book title "The Secret Life of Plants".

If you want to learn more about what energy is, I would suggest Richard Feyman's "Lectures on Physics". Using words that you don't know the meaning of really does not impress me.

IXP

 

[Psiload]

http://www.thiaoouba.com/aura_eye_exercise.htm

This page contains some of the silliest things I've ever seen.

A good look around will prove that the Nature is very fond of Auric Pairs. Take any red colored bird and you can be sure, that this bird will have turquoise body parts too.

Let's see... The Cardinal? Nope... no turquoise. The Robin?... nope. Well, so much for that theory.

How about this one?:

Global Warming: can Earth explode as a result of Global Warming?

And this:

Q. What about toilets on Thiaoouba ?

A. On Thiaoouba they use a kind of device that looks similar to our toilet, but isn't. It simply disintegrates the waste as it comes out - into elementary particles I guess. No water, no paper, no smell, nothing. Michel was scared that this machine might disintegrate his private parts...

oooooo-kay.


Or this gem:

Overcoming Gravity

No, they have Tara on their waists and Litolac in their hands. These produce certain vibrations which neutralise the cold magnetic force of the planet, allowing for neutralisation of the gravitational force. Even a weight of millions of tonnes compares with that of feathers. Then, by other vibrations, resembling those of ultra-sound, they can steer themselves precisely to wherever they choose, as they are doing now. On this planet everyone wanting to travel some distance uses this method ...'

Brian... buddy.

You have to be careful about leaving your mind so wide open that your brain falls out. You're not going to find answers in this type of quasi-spiritual, pseudo scientific gobbledygook..

Take it form me... I went down that path when I was young and impressionable, and it's a long, tough struggle back to reality. There are no answers over there...

that way be dragons.

 

[Psiload]

Re: Re: I'll throw a coal into this fire

If you want to learn more about what energy is, I would suggest Richard Feyman's "Lectures on Physics". Using words that you don't know the meaning of really does not impress me.

IXP

Good thinking, IXP... let's get this lad started down the right path:

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-1920780-3436702?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The Demon-Haunted World : Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-1920780-3436702?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Great books... available at your local library.

Any more suggested reading?

 

[Ipecac]

Brian,

Welcome to the forum.

You said you used to be a skeptic. Now you reveal that at the age of 13 you had a "sick habit" of masturbating and worked hard to stop. I suspect you considered it a problem because of religious pressures. This begs the question, just WHEN were you a skeptic? When you were 10?

Your comment about masturbation is one of the reasons I hate what religion does to people. How much grief, shame and pain did you go through because you were made to feel guilty about a perfectly natural act which had no adverse consequences to anyone? The masturbation wasn't the problem. The problem was the guilt you were made to feel.

Ipecac

 

[IXP]

Re: Re: Re: I'll throw a coal into this fire

Any more suggested reading?

In a lighter vein:

"Candide", Voltaire,
"Don Quixote", Cervantes
'Catch-22", Heller
"Gravity's Rainbow", Pynchon
"Giles Goat Boy", Barth
"The Tin Drum", Grass
"Group Portait With Lady", Boll

IXP

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

wow, this is great!

First of all, I appreciate the mature tone everyone is taking for the most part. The internet is often a place for unneccessary rudeness and blatant ignorance. However, I will try to get to everything you have all said.

Hans did an excellent job of answering your first post. I do hope you look carefully at what he had to say. Allow me to try this one.

Indeed, to those of you who have talked about light and optical illusions. Indeed, a light "aura" is around every object, living or dead. That was just my point. So you can see it. However, if you are able to see it on a living object, the colors vary considerably and have nothing to do with the color of the actual being. Isn't that wierd? So auras and "light reflections" are seen in the same way, only the auras colors seem irrational or random in the realm of science.

Perhaps your observations were not systematic. Try your hypothesis on people in front of the same background, preferably a neutral color, and make sure these people have the same color clothes and hair, (you may have to cover the hair with a neutral color). Then try it with some variable altered such as the hair or clothes. And so on.

In order to really test your hypothesis you need to start by recognizing it IS an hypothesis you want to test, not a preconceived belief you want to reinforce.

See if you can account for the variable colors you supposedly see by some other explanation than an aura. Don't assume the colors you see aren't opposite of the colors you stare at, instead just record what you see and look for a pattern. If it turns out blonds or people with red shirts or people with dark skin all have consistent aura colors you will have your answer as to how the illusion is occurring.

Until you have several pages of meticulously collected data, your conclusions are invalid. You are reinforcing your preconceived hypothesis rather than seriously testing it.

I'm glad you're thinking with your head, whoever said the stand behind a screen thing. I'm not so keen on going into some million dollar challenge as a christian that has only done auric work for very short amounts of time though! Also, I've never tried to see an aura from behind a screen...i mean, maybe it should work, right? It would be wierd to not have a chakra to look at. Hmm, if some people could try to orchestrate this sometime and I could try to prove it it would be cool and all, if anyone lives in colorado, but I admit I'm unsure of my abilities and its something I don't ever practice(my whole purpose of talking about paranormal is to try and help people find God).

Your proselytizing tactic is unlikely to get you anywhere in this forum. Your unwillingness to take the time to test your hypothesis will not convince anyone of your hypothesis. And why not go for the million and donate it to some Christian charity?

Ah, and finally to the power of prayer part. I can't make you believe in the power of prayer, you just have to take my word for it lol. Sure, the examples I have can be coincidence, but I'm not so sure.

Well the scientific testing of prayer supposedly came up with a few positive results so I took the time to check them out. Not a single study I reviewed actually showed prayer had any effect. None of the positive results were actually valid by scientific standards. I looked at all the studies I could find, there aren't too many. (Apparently testing that faith thing is too much of a gamble. What if the research showed there was no difference between persons prayed about or persons who prayed and those who weren't or don't respectively?)

My biggest example is extremely personal and embarrassing, so please try to be somewhat understanding in my hesistance towards talking about it. When I was about 13, I was addicted to the sick(at least from a christian perspective) habit of masturbation. No doubt, this is something that plagues most all men, especially at this age. Anyway, after a couple years of dealing with this burden, and just about giving up, I started praying. I hadn't really believed all my life, but something was about to turn around.

Why on Earth would masturbating be 'sick'? A 'burden'? That's just plain bizarre. So your logic, (I'm guessing about some of this here), is the church interprets some statement about hedonism in the Bible to mean masturbation, convinces you to feel guilty about it, then convinces you God can save you from yourself? You poor man. I do hope you get help for your undeserved feelings of manufactured guilt over a very natural, normal human behavior.

Wierd stuff started happening. I doubt anyone will believe me here. One day, I was thinking about it, about to do something I shouldn't have, and people came home. It was far earlier then they were supposed to. Of course, there was some rational explanation that "followed".

Another time it was the cat coming up to me. Once it was a song that perfectly applied, out of a playlist of 2,000. Other times somebody would start talking to me on aim that i never talked to or didn't like me. But it was always something.

I know this all sounds wierd, but its all so true. You can go all Hume on me and say I'm making up cause and effect relationships...but somewhere along the way it has to be more than coincidence. I think this was it.

And your basis for thinking these things were God's interventions is? The mere fact there were many of these 'events'? It would seem to me your own self control, also a very normal human trait, was the cause of whatever decision you made over whatever circumstances you are applying this to. The fact you found some external reason to take a certain course of action in no way makes your choice the result of that external reason. No matter how you choose to slice it, at the end of the day, you took the action you did, not the cat, not the music, not the person returning home.

I understand your skepticism towards it all. In this world of science or reason it seems as though everything once thought to be magical is being discovered to be reasonable and rational. So, why wouldn't everything just become like that? That is the opinion many hold.

Apparently you don't understand, (my skepticism at least, I can't speak for anyone else's). Once you figure out what the scientific process is, how it works and why it works, (if you do), you will be better able to assess your own beliefs, and then you will understand my skepticism.

There is nothing natural or logical about the experiences I've had with prayer. This is just one example of so many. Maybe I'm just trying harder, maybe I'm looking for findings where they don't exist, maybe I'm just a nutcase. But I'll die looking, die loving God, and die a nutcase then.

Or perhaps just die with the myths you currently believe in.

Finally, about the aura thing. Nay, I doubt that I can actually prove it to you. Why do you think I gave you that website to take a look at? Because I don't think it would take that long to learn. And this isn't one of those "you have to believe to learn" bs arguments. You can learn. You can see. If you try.

If none of you want to take the time to do this, very well. If none of you want to believe a word I say, I guess that's all right too.

Who is unwilling to take the time here? What nonsense.

I will try to stick around so you can all learn more about me and the amazing story that has been my life though.

Just remember, this is your life. Even if its a 1/1000000 possibility, what if there is a god who loves you? What is everlasting life awaits? Isn't it worth spending your life trying to find out?

What if there isn't a god and you wasted your one and only life on it?

Have a nice day. See ya around.

Brian

You too.

As a final note, you certainly aren't the first person to try convincing people of your beliefs based solely on your personal testimony. After all, that's what Christian proselytizing is all about.

But for people like me who have absolutely no reason to follow your baseless beliefs, you'll need more than some dumb claim of how happy I will be if I just try it. I'm already happy. That's your first incorrect premise. My son, my family and my two dogs already love me, so I don't need to make up some other source of 'love' either.

I have found all religions to be very interesting but very much based in mythical beliefs begun as human social structure and natural brain mechanisms evolved to try to control or explain the world. The myths have been perpetuated throughout history and, I assume also throughout pre-recorded history, by men, (mostly but women had some part in it), to manipulate other people for the men's personal gain or for misguided altruistic reasons, or just to feel better that lots of people believe the same myths, (religion plays a social role as it identifies us vs. them).

Now that we humans have a much better understanding of the natural world, and better mechanisms for determining why things are the way they are, and definitely much better mechanisms to control the world around us, we no longer need be using mythical mechanisms that did not accomplish any of the above. We are clearly better off with science than with prayer. Science has proved a more reliable mechanism for understanding the world and the Universe for that matter.

And as to the group identity thing, science has shown that genetically we are all one race. Wars are perpetuated by the 'us vs. them' beliefs. We will be better off as a society if and when we can eliminate the 'us vs. them'. Science has a better chance of doing that than religion.

I wonder if you will truly read and learn anything from this forum? Start by trying to confirm your beliefs with careful observation instead of just reinforcing what you already believe. Remember, you can't 'learn' anything if all you do is reinforce what you already know.

 

[AngrySteve]

Isn't it worth spending your life trying to find out?

Brian [/B]

Sorry, i will avoid the temptation to be rude.
You are not rude yourself, i just don't agree

My view is there is no God.
There is no reincarnation. We would all need to have memories of our past lives. The few that do haven't convinced me yet
That doesn't mean i'm not prepared to look into claims

I will not spend this one single life that i have in pursuit of fairy stories, or worshipping non-existent entities. And i feel slightly sorry for those people that do.

One crack of the whip, we've got to keep things real sometimes.
Let's not have our heads in the clouds right through life.
Let's not waste it

Find out what? Everybody dies eventually

 

[AOK Tiger]

Sigh….

Note to self : This guy posted nice polite stuff.. avoid ranting about his completely illogical conclusions, inability to be tested, inability to respond to ANY sensible queries and…

The impending FACT that he will either stop responding VERY soon or just proselytize, regale us with further anectodes and repeat over and over again how if we “just open our minds” we too could have these wonderful insights !

BTW.. Psiload.. can I use that one.. “Don’t open your mind too much your brain might fall out”… LOL.

 

[IIRichard]

An interesting optical illusion:

Do you see the 'auras' in the intersections?

It works by a well known visual processing trick.

Explanation here

Hey Geko:

Hang around, you haven't been flamed yet. Both my son and I have had "lucid" dreams and I think that some scientists now believe that they are possible.

Interstingly, I have a retinal detachment in one eye and macular degeneration in the other. Most of these optical illusions which depnd on interpreting the image bifocally don't work with me. I can't see the auras above frinstance. I never could see those 3D patterns that used to be so popular..

 

[gecko]

umm, umm, umm *looks around nervously*

I'm sorry, I can't possibly reply to all of the things you all said...and I'm sorry, but I can't possibly prove God to you. Think about it from the perspective that God exists. If he does exist(i know he does, but i'm taking this at a neutral perspective), then he gave us the free will to choose or reject him. That is clear. Therefore, he wouldn't let us PROOVE he exists, because that would not be choosing him. It would be learning to be forced to choose him. Understand?

So, in all respects, its illogical that God could ever be proven.

Haha, about the comment about being a skeptic and the masturbation thing...I thought it was a sin before i was a full believer. But even when I was a skeptic, I considered myself a christian. Maybe that seems wierd.

Ok, I can't tell you that everything on that site is real, or that ghosts ghouls and goblins exist. All I can attest to, of the things I've looked into, are lucid dreams and auras.

I'm sorry, I really don't think I can prove these auras in the ways you guys are asking. With the whole wall...I can't imagine seeing through this wall, and about the plant thing...no how can I see auras from a long distance away!

Haha, well, this whole thread went, well, exactly how I suspected it would. I can't prove to you that auras exist anymore than that my name is brian...lol.

 

[gecko]

oh, and about the cat thing. I almost didn't read that post.

Indoors, I think it was a little bright maybe, the carpet was white and the cat was black.

 

[gecko]

three posts in a row! I should just edit...

Finally, I don't think I'm a better person for believing. I don't think I'm better than any of you or any of that crap. *refrains from saying a christian slogan that will make you all mad* We all make plenty of mistakes and who am I to judge? I'm really not that different from all of you, I would bet.

 

[Ashles]

Interstingly, I have a retinal detachment in one eye and macular degeneration in the other. Most of these optical illusions which depnd on interpreting the image bifocally don't work with me. I can't see the auras above frinstance. I never could see those 3D patterns that used to be so popular..

That shouldn't make any difference to the illusion described, or the effects described by Paj or geni. The effect Brian describes is nothing to do with binocular vision.

And I don't see any reason why lucid dreams are considered controversial. If you mean that some people have a degree of control in their dreams then that hardly seems paranormal in any way.

Edited to delete my question which Gecko already answered.

 

[Ashles]

oh, and about the cat thing. I almost didn't read that post.

Indoors, I think it was a little bright maybe, the carpet was white and the cat was black.

Thanks for answering. I think you see where I was going with the question (I was actually going to ask if the cat was black).

Oh well I hope it all works out.

I really can't understand why any religion would consider masturbation a sin, or where it says in the bible that you shouldn't, but hey, I'm a sceptic.

I doubt that you are significantly different from us, except that we put more reliance in science and the things that we can actually experience and find evidence of. I think you would find that we are all pretty moral people who live decent and productive lives.

And we are probably more relaxed some of the time.

 

[jmercer]

Well, Brian... I'm a skeptic, and I consider myself an active Christian, too. It's an apparent contradiction - but one I've managed to at least compartmentalize, if not outright reconcile for myself.

You have been treated politely here, which is something I'm pleased to note. There are lots of reasons for that, but I think mostly because you came in here openly and honestly stating your beliefs. I respect you for that. (And others who do likewise, such as Beth Clarkson.)

I have no problem with sincere individuals who want to share their beliefs, as long as they're not offensive about it and don't attempt to "sneak in under the radar."

I would like to ask you a question, though, if I may.

You've bravely (and nervously!) entered a notorious skeptics forum, providing information and stating your beliefs - beliefs which you know will absolutely not be accepted at face value, and that you have very little hope of convincing anyone about. (And in fact, you entered a forum that specifically could have resulted in some really painful flaming. It's pretty clear you understood that from the start, given title of your post.)

Why did you do this?

 

[Ipecac]

I'm sorry, I can't possibly reply to all of the things you all said...and I'm sorry, but I can't possibly prove God to you. Think about it from the perspective that God exists. If he does exist(i know he does, but i'm taking this at a neutral perspective), then he gave us the free will to choose or reject him. That is clear. Therefore, he wouldn't let us PROOVE he exists, because that would not be choosing him. It would be learning to be forced to choose him. Understand?

So, in all respects, its illogical that God could ever be proven.

Since you admit that there's no proof that God exists, why believe in him at all?

Why not also avoid stepping on cracks? You wouldn't want to break your mother's back.

 

[gecko]

Well, Brian... I'm a skeptic, and I consider myself an active Christian, too. It's an apparent contradiction - but one I've managed to at least compartmentalize, if not outright reconcile for myself.

You have been treated politely here, which is something I'm pleased to note. There are lots of reasons for that, but I think mostly because you came in here openly and honestly stating your beliefs. I respect you for that. (And others who do likewise, such as Beth Clarkson.)

I have no problem with sincere individuals who want to share their beliefs, as long as they're not offensive about it and don't attempt to "sneak in under the radar."

I would like to ask you a question, though, if I may.

You've bravely (and nervously!) entered a notorious skeptics forum, providing information and stating your beliefs - beliefs which you know will absolutely not be accepted at face value, and that you have very little hope of convincing anyone about. (And in fact, you entered a forum that specifically could have resulted in some really painful flaming. It's pretty clear you understood that from the start, given title of your post.)

Why did you do this?

I don't know...its a long story I guess...

About the aura thing. I accept that I might be full of baloney, and might be looking into something that isn't there. However, I thought I might be able to prove it, and if I could prove the paranormal, it would be more likely that you would belive in God.

To tell you a little about myself, I searched for years for evidence of the paranormal. I think I moved some paper with my mind, but its probably speculation. I had some pretty wierd experiences with feeling energy, but I was never too sure of them. I thought I heard voices a few times, but I didn't really know. And auras were one of the few things that actuallly held some merit(along with lucid dreams, which is apparently accepted).

My search didn't end there though. I started looking for God, praying that I could find him. Prayed my little heart out. When I was 15(i'm actually only 16 just so you know) I wrote an English Composition II paper on evolution vs. creationism (yeah, started college when I was 14). I foudn a lot of evidence supporting the scientific basis of both actually. But none of this made me truly believe.

This is where the whole masturbation thing came into place. From age 12 or so to age 15, this was something that deeply troubled me. I know most people think its ok, but it just seemed so wrong to me. Not even on a christian basis. So I prayed about it. And that's when all that wierd stuff happened.

Nowadays, I don't really care about the paranormal to be blunt. The only time I use it is as a crutch to the existence of God. And I'm not saying "accept all christian doctrine" because that's ignorant. I'm talking about the existence, of a loving, omnipotent God that gave us life and free will and who we are supposed to believe and have faith in. I don't know every little doctrinal aspect and the truths of this world.

So yeah...it all came down to wanting to tell people about my faith in God. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some wierd Mormon missionary that wants people to find God because it gives me a better chance of the afterlife. I just want people to think about it, to look for Him, to pray to find Him, and I think you will find Him.

The aura information I was providing you with is about 3 years old, back when I liked that stuff. Go figure, a little kid looking for paranormal! It's the classic story. Nowadays, I don't really care about it(other than the reasons I specified), but I do believe there is a lot out there that we can't readily explain. And I still believe that science will never explain it all.

I understand the skepticism of everyone here, and I can only ask that you live your lives vigilantly in the hopes of finding that which is true. And don't be so quick to dismiss emotions, intuiton, and things like that. Reason isn't everything!

Well...if you want more experiences, I can try to pull some more out of my bag sometime. But I think you catch my drift, granted you don't fall asleep in the midst of these obnoxiously long posts.

Wait, I do want to say one more thing. I know a lot of christians say that God can only be found through faith and not works, right? I'm sure you're familiar with this if you have read Galatians. However, I think that being a good person and fighting for what is good is very important, and can bring us to religion and bring us to our faith. That is an opinion though. "God" and "Good" are one in the same really...maybe

Well, that is all for right now...but I'm sure there will be more to reply to! I hope you all find what you are looking for in life.

Brian

 

[Ashles]

There are a lot of points you have raised there Brian. And we aren't going to jump all over you just for being a Christian (if anyone does just ignore them ).
On the whole we try not criticise people who believe in God as it is not really an area where either side can make much progress by debate, and belief in God can be very positive and helpful for many people.

We tend to have more issues with specific and demonstrable claims (like, "I can dowse" or "The Bible Code can predict the future" etc.). Things that can actually be demonstrated.

I would have a question about this though:

My search didn't end there though. I started looking for God, praying that I could find him. Prayed my little heart out. When I was 15(i'm actually only 16 just so you know) I wrote an English Composition II paper on evolution vs. creationism (yeah, started college when I was 14). I foudn a lot of evidence supporting the scientific basis of both actually.

I would be interested if you could provide any scientific evidence at all for creationism.
Noone else has ever been able to, so I am interested in hearing what you think constitutes scientific evidence towards creationism.

 

[gecko]

skeptigirl...you said something about changing the hair colors or there being a strange relationship of some kind to explain the varying colors, while all inanimate objects share an opposite reflection? This makes no sense to me.

As far as I can see, the fact that somebody with brown hair would yield a yellow or blue aura(the only two I have seen from looking at myself) alone is evidence, since the colors are different.

Do I think I can prove it under the conditions you prescribe? Of course not. If nobody else could, I know I can't. The only way I could, while nobody else could, is if i was the only person on earth who could see these darn things. And somehow I doubt it.

This is why I was asking YOU. I was asking you to take the time to actually try out one of these wacky periods of experimentation, as I have many times in my life sadly enough, often to no avail. But once and awhile I hit something. I understand if you think I'm a quack and don't feel like wasting your time though...

I'm sorry to all of those of you who say I presented no more evidence than a testimony. That's the only evidence I have! Well, and that shrewd aura stuff I just talked about...oh well.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was saying that you weren't happy, or that your lives were worthless. I can't say I didn't mean it, that is what I meant. And it was a rude assumption.

Hah...well...here I am, a kid sitting at his computer, thinking he could make a difference! Well, I gave it my best...I suppose I can stick around awhile. What else do I have to do with my life anyway?(sorry, had to step on my own arguments a bit lol)

 

[IIRichard]

That shouldn't make any difference to the illusion described, or the effects described by Paj or geni. The effect Brian describes is nothing to do with binocular vision.

And I don't see any reason why lucid dreams are considered controversial. If you mean that some people have a degree of control in their dreams then that hardly seems paranormal in any way.

Edited to delete my question which Gecko already answered.

All I can say is that I don't see the circles that are supposed to be in the intersections. I USED to see them but I don't anymore. Most optical illusions I can still see but there are many that just don't work for me anymore. Yeah, that's anecdote but for me, it's reality.

HEY BRIAN: (called proof by shouting, very popular)

How do you reconcile your Christian beliefs with the new age stuff? The Bible is filled with warnings against witchcraft, divination, magic and astrology. You have a problem my friend.

PS - I'm a Christian and I take it seriously.