The Great Zaganza
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Well, Barr, Trump and the GOP aren't fond of the IG right now. It seems to me that they like the FISA system pliable as long as it isn't used against them.
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IG Horowitz report thread.
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Well, Barr, Trump and the GOP aren't fond of the IG right now. It seems to me that they like the FISA system pliable as long as it isn't used against them.
Ziggurat
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You have that backwards. Trump is unhappy with the IG because the IG isn't coming down on the FBI even harder. I wouldn't trust second-hand reports about what Barr thinks about the IG. I will point out that Barr has access to information through Durham's investigation that the IG didn't have (because Durham has investigative powers that the IG doesn't), so even if Barr comes to different conclusions than the IG, that doesn't necessarily mean much about what Barr thinks of the IG.
But none of that is really relevant to your previous post. I've seen some people dispute the IG's findings, but I don't know of anyone who is disputing the IG's recommendations for changes in procedures.
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The Great Zaganza
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Do you have an reason to believe that the FBI was more sloppy with these FISA warrants than they are with other cases?
A number of attorneys have stated that they have seen similar mistakes in the past in their cases.
A number of attorneys have stated that they have seen similar mistakes in the past in their cases.
Ziggurat
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If the FBI is this "careless" in most cases, then the institution needs to be burned to the ground and the earth it was built on salted.
The Great Zaganza
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I think it would have helped if they had reason to believe that the AG had their back instead of playing defense attorney to Trump himself.
Well, as bad as it is, FBI is just people. People make mistakes. People are prone to be subjective or to be corrupt.
Do you want to burn down every police departement with bad cops or where a cop
That is going to be a big fire for sure.
Ziggurat
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The AG shouldn't have their back when they screw up this badly. And the agent who faked the email about Page should go to jail for it.
Squeegee Beckenheim
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If I were interviewing Trump, I'd go through things like that letter and tweets that were allegedly authored by him and I'd praise him for what a big vocabulary he has. I'd then read out a short list of words that he'd used that I'm positive he doesn't know the meaning of ("egregious" being the one that first caught my eye in that letter, but also "disingenuous", "caliphate", "malicious", "exculpatory", "solemnity", "reticence", "indelible", and many more), mix in a few words that I've made up entirely, then just ask him where he learnt words like framascuous and lemosticy.
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The Great Zaganza
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By your standards, Barr should go to jail for faking his summary of the Mueller and IG reports.
Ziggurat
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Uh, no. That you don't like his summary or his conclusions doesn't mean he faked anything. That's not how it works.
I'd personally be fine with that but it isn't at all the same thing.
Barr summarized the reports in the most favorable way he could, but he knew that the same reports would eventually be released to the public.
The FBI "summarized" their evidence against Page assuming none of the excuplatory evidence that would have made it more difficult to get a warrant would ever see the day, and they also altered at least some of it to strengthen their case.
As has been pointed out, either they were biased against Trump or this is the sort of thing they routinely do to get secret warrants. The first sucks but the second is horrifying.
Ziggurat
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Indeed. It's beyond bizarre that some people here are pushing that second possibility as some sort of defense of the FBI.
theprestige
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Let's start with something we all agree on: Lying to a court in order to get a fraudulent search warrant is a jailable offense, and the guy who did it in this case should be jailed. Do you at least agree with that premise?
The Great Zaganza
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Barr straight out LIED in his summaries.
Plenty of experts were certain that this would get him fired, as it would have every previous AG.
plague311
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Yes to the hilited. At all, for anything.
Can we put Trump in jail now? It seems like we both agree.
Ziggurat
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Strangely enough, Mueller doesn't seem to share that opinion.
The Great Zaganza
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yes he did.
otherwise he wouldn't have wrote a letter to him.
But in either case, Mueller is not a linguist: Barr literally edited a Mueller quote to make it say the opposite.
And he claims that the IG report proves that Trump was spied on.
The definition of LIE is met in both cases.
If you don't see that, it's because you don't want to.
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Ziggurat
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I presume you mean "wouldn't", because otherwise this is nonsense [edit: I see you fixed that]. But even with that change, it's still simply wrong. Mueller's letter doesn't claim or even suggest that Barr lied. This one sentence from Mueller's letter is basically the entirety of his complaint:
"The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office's work and conclusions."
But that falls so far within the bounds of differences of opinion between Barr and Mueller that for you to say Mueller thinks Barr lied is itself a lie. Hell, it's possible that the author of a long document and the author of a summary of that document could agree about EVERYTHING in the document, and the author of the long document might still say that the summary doesn't fully capture the "context, nature, and substance" of the long piece.
Show me which quote you're referring to. Mueller makes no reference to any such altered quote in his letter to Barr.
The Trump campaign was spied on. That's what the FISA warrant was for: to spy on Carter Page. You might not like calling covert surveillance "spying", but what exactly do you think the word "spy" (as a verb) even means?
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theprestige
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plague311
Great minds think...
It's your criteria. You asked if we could agree. I'm agreeing with you.
Yay! Agreement!
Sure, I give **** all about Clinton. Lock both of them up. Shoot them in the face. Hang them from Time Square. Shackle them to a locomotive. Drop them out of a plane. Do whatever the **** you want with Clinton. It's odd you bring them in a thread about an IG report about Trump and his campaign, but when you got nothing else to go to...
I...don't know what this means. So, sure.