If You're Fat - You Might Not Graduate

[Meadmaker]

It's a private school. Fitness is important. So..why not? It's an unconventional requirement to say the least, but it will be interesting to see how well it plays with the student body, and whether it attracts students or drives them away.

 

[tyr_13]

Oh yeah, what could be the harm in separating out the 'fat' students, telling them they are 'fat' and making sure everyone else knows by making them take a class?

Make everyone take two phy-ed classes. You don't paint targets on people, and the exceptions aren't unfairly included/excluded.

 

[Meadmaker]

Oh yeah, what could be the harm in separating out the 'fat' students, telling them they are 'fat' and making sure everyone else knows by making them take a class?

I'm pretty sure I can tell the fat ones even without taking a class.

I don't think this would make me want to attend that school, but I'm having a hard time getting outraged by it. (And, while I was at typical college age, this requirement would not have affected me, but today, I think I might have to take an extra class. )

If anything, from a strictly marketing point of view, I think they aren't going far enough. If you're going to make fitness a hallmark of your school, demand genuine athletic participation and/or physical fitness requirements. That way, everyone would know that only a certain sort of person could graduate from that school, and it would give your diploma a certain meaning. As it is, the requirement is so feeble all it demonstrates is a school administration that is willing to institute well meaning, but useless, requirements with no real benefit to students.

I'll bet West Point has stricter fitness requirements than Lincoln College, and no one complains about that.

 

[quixotecoyote]

That way, everyone would know that only a certain sort of person could graduate from that school, and it would give your diploma a certain meaning.

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if there are any non-military colleges out there that have that attitude.

 

[Fat Bottom Gurl]

I'll bet West Point has stricter fitness requirements than Lincoln College, and no one complains about that.

You certainly have a point in that Lincoln is a private school and can set any requirements they want, however, why target only those with BMI over 30 and large waist as being unhealthy? If they are serioius about health and fitness, then BMI's under 17 should also be included. Extreme thinness is just as unhealthy.

 

[tyr_13]

I'm pretty sure I can tell the fat ones even without taking a class.

No, you can't. I'm not talking about people who are obviously fat, but about people who simply believe they are fat even though they simply have a different body type than other people. These people often have high BMI even if they have low fat percentages. These are also people at a pretty high risk of developing eating disorders.

Back when I wrestled, we used the pinch tests and such to determine our minimum weight. The lowest I could have gone was 225 lbs. By that standard, if I went below that weight, I was unhealthy. Even if I did get to 225 lbs, I'd still have a BMI of 30.5. The simple fact is, even at my current weight of 280 lbs (BMI of 38) no one believes I'm fat, let alone obese. Hell, I'm at 265 lbs in my sig picture.

You can handwave that as 'only a few percent of people', but it's enough to make it a pretty useless test when there are better ones.

I don't think this would make me want to attend that school, but I'm having a hard time getting outraged by it. (And, while I was at typical college age, this requirement would not have affected me, but today, I think I might have to take an extra class. )

If anything, from a strictly marketing point of view, I think they aren't going far enough. If you're going to make fitness a hallmark of your school, demand genuine athletic participation and/or physical fitness requirements. That way, everyone would know that only a certain sort of person could graduate from that school, and it would give your diploma a certain meaning. As it is, the requirement is so feeble all it demonstrates is a school administration that is willing to institute well meaning, but useless, requirements with no real benefit to students.

I'll bet West Point has stricter fitness requirements than Lincoln College, and no one complains about that.

Oh, I'm not saying that people are going to point and laugh at anyone for having to take an extra health class. I'm not even outraged. I do believe it is a stupid move with piss poor implementation through BMI.

West Point has no BMI requirement as far as I know, but does have fitness tests. This makes more sense especially when one considers how it is pertinent to a military career. This isn't a requirement for people in the PE or other physical programs, but a general one.

As for the marketing, voluntary programs, easily available facilities, and most of all, meal plan transparency, are far better ways to market a school's commitment to health of students in my view.

 

[Fat Bottom Gurl]

Update - Required Class is Dropped

I just read this update on another blog:

"Lincoln University has decided to drop the required class:

Obese students at Lincoln University won't have to take a fitness class to graduate after all.

The faculty nixed the idea last week amid complaints that the so-called "fat course" undermined a school principle of equal treatment.

The historically black college, in Chester County, had initiated the policy to address high rates of obesity and diabetes, especially in the African American community.

About 80 students had gotten e-mails saying they had to take the fitness course to graduate."


The plan was to target students with a body mass index of 30 or above.

The "fitness for life" course will instead be suggested to certain students after a freshman class that addresses a number of health issues.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

... The extra requirement is insulting for a wide variety of groups. ....

Nice pun ..

 

[drkitten]

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if there are any non-military colleges out there that have that attitude.

Many colleges have some sort of phys-ed requirement. Bryn Mawr, for example, has a required swimming test for graduation.

Many other schools (e.g. Rollins College) have a "so many credits of phys ed to graduate" requirement.

I know of no other school that has a "must take more classes if you're unfit" policy, though. It's always either a "everyone has to be able to do [such and such]" or "everyone has to take [such and such]," never a "if you can't so [this], you must take [that] course" policy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Many colleges have some sort of phys-ed requirement. Bryn Mawr, for example, has a required swimming test for graduation.

Many other schools (e.g. Rollins College) have a "so many credits of phys ed to graduate" requirement.

I know of no other school that has a "must take more classes if you're unfit" policy, though. It's always either a "everyone has to be able to do [such and such]" or "everyone has to take [such and such]," never a "if you can't so [this], you must take [that] course" policy.

FWIW, a university I am aware of, three in fact, will not graduate you if your are obese.

USNA
USMA
USAFA

Taking more classes won't save you. This has been true for about thirty years that I am aware of, though the standards are actually tougher now than when I attended the first on the list.

The nice thing is that the maintenance of suitable fitness is a part of every curriculum, and both testing and remediation are available within the course of study.

DR

 

[drkitten]

You certainly have a point in that Lincoln is a private school and can set any requirements they want, however, why target only those with BMI over 30 and large waist as being unhealthy?

Because "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras."

Offering a class takes time and money; you don't want to offer classes that not enough people would take. Obesity, for better or for worse, is endemic in the United States, and the school will have no problem finding enough people to fill such a class if it were offered.

Being too thin -- or, for reductio ad absurdum, having some chronic disease requiring careful monitoring that strikes one person in a million -- can be an equally grave health problem. But is it going to be a widespread health problem, enough to justify opening a mandatory class to address?

 

[drkitten]

FWIW, a university I am aware of, three in fact, will not graduate you if your are obese.

USNA
USMA
USAFA

Yeah, that's the first type I described. Performance-based mandatory fitness testing, which is fairly common. (You also left out the Coast Guard Academy and the Merchant Marine Academy, but everyone does that, so I won't hold it against you.)

Similarly, taking more classes won't save you at Bryn Mawr; if you can't swim, you don't graduate.

What I've never seen is a system where if you test as fit enough, you don't have to do anything, but if you test as unfit, you just have to take some classes.

 

[Checkmite]

I believe this issue is being misrepresented - at least by the title of the thread, being "If you're fat, you might not graduate". The new rule says no such thing. It does say that if you're fat, you have to take a 1 credit health class to fulfil the graduation requirements; but it's also true in many colleges that if you've never been to college before, you have to take a 1-credit "Transistion to College Life" (or something similar) course in order to fulfil the requirements; in either case, the requirement hinges on something an incoming student has no control over, and I don't think it has to be necessarily unfair.

In most universities, in order to get a Bachelor of Science, you must take at least two semesters of calculus sometime during your 4 years. Pair this with the fact that (regardless of your major) you will have to take at least a couple of physics classes (which require you to have already taken those calculus courses as a prerequisite), and that after the arts/humanities, foreign language, and other various sundry requirements, it will likely be impossible to fit enough remedial algebra and college algebra and trigonometry and precalculus math classes in if you haven't already done up to pre-calculus in high school; going further, consider that if you plan on spending the first two years at a community college, most transfer plans want you to have done those calculus and physics courses in those first two years. Put all this together, and some poor shmuck who stopped at the minimum algebra classes in high school because he's just plain not good at math is effectively barred from attaining a B.S. in his dream major. Is that fair?

 

[drkitten]

FWIW, a university I am aware of, three in fact, will not graduate you if your are obese.

USNA
USMA
USAFA

Taking more classes won't save you.

As a slight change of subject, I wonder how this interacts with the ADA (and basic fairness, for that).

As a simple example, let's take the hypothetical star quarterback of the Navy football team, who takes a hit during a game that leaves him paralyzed from the waist down. This is obviously going to negatively impact his Navy career.

Does the Navy expel him from school immediately after the game? At the end of the year? Do they let him graduate in a wheelchair but then not commission him? I would consider anything less than the third to be deeply unfair.

But this would also apply to someone who develops hypothyroidism in school and packs on the pounds as a result....

Obviously, this is a sufficiently rare event that it wouldn't apply to most Middies, and telling Tubbo to simply eat less and visit the damn gym would take care of most cases that actually arise.

 

[drkitten]

In most universities, in order to get a Bachelor of Science, you must take at least two semesters of calculus sometime during your 4 years. [...] some poor shmuck who stopped at the minimum algebra classes in high school because he's just plain not good at math is effectively barred from attaining a B.S. in his dream major. Is that fair?

Well, it's fair in the sense that it's directly related to what he wants to do.

If you want to get a B.S., you need to know math. (Or if you don't, there shouldn't be the math requirement). If you want to get a B.S., you shouldn't need to know how to play the tuba. I'd suggest a math requirement is therefore fairer than a tuba-playing requirement.

 

[Meadmaker]

Oh, I'm not saying that people are going to point and laugh at anyone for having to take an extra health class. I'm not even outraged. I do believe it is a stupid move with piss poor implementation through BMI.

True.

My guess is that if I met the people who passed this rule I would think they were a bunch of meddlesome do-gooders who pass feel-good policies with no real value. That's just a hunch, though.

 

[Captain.Sassy]

As with any positive lifestyle change, sometimes people need a kick in the ass to get in shape.

If this program is the kick in the ass that helps people get in shape, fantastic. As a fairly fit former fatso I can attest that being out of shape sucked royally. I wish my highschool would have forced me to take after school treadmill lessons.

Comments about the suitability of the BMI metric are noted.

 

[Darth Rotor]

As a simple example, let's take the hypothetical star quarterback of the Navy football team, who takes a hit during a game that leaves him paralyzed from the waist down. This is obviously going to negatively impact his Navy career.

It may indeed pre empt it, which I think is the actual answer you are looking for.

Does the Navy expel him from school immediately after the game? At the end of the year? Do they let him graduate in a wheelchair but then not commission him? I would consider anything less than the third to be deeply unfair.

LIkely the third would happen.

It all depends. He may be NPQ'd and retired medically, or be assigned to a job with limited duty. Depends on what he's good at, and what can be managed, and what's practical.

DR