If skepticism makes you an atheist

[Euromutt]

How about a toned down version:

Skeptics are supposed to change their beliefs in the presence of new evidence.

With regard to god, what does this evidence have to be?

The healing amputees requirement seems to raise the bar too high.

"Seems to raise the bar too high" strikes me as an elaborate way of saying "falsifiable." It's awfully easy to meet a standard of proof if you reserve the right to lower that standard because you can't meet it at its present level. If you keep this up, you'll be asking us to accept that God might exist because slices of bread sometimes land buttered side up.

 

[CapelDodger]

The healing amputees requirement seems to raise the bar too high.

A bar can be set too high for a god-type thingy? That has to be some wimpish god-type thingy. Hardly worthy of the name, if you ask me. I like my mythical entities to have some real substance, like Aragorn. Not even a god-type thingy but catch him whining about the bar's height? Not a chance.

 

[blutoski]

That we only know things basically about his meager 3 year ministry (a God who is eternal and timeles comes to Earth to school men for 3 measely years?????) from his age of 30-33, when he was killed.

I'm not sure this is true: there are many apocryphal works. The reason they are not canon is that when the bible was constructed out of these many works, the objective was to fashion a more or less consistent narrative, and works that did not 'fit' were declared apocryphal.

For example, Evangelisa - the gospel of Mary Magdelaine (a walk with Christ through an olive grove) - was rejected because it was too much like the Sermon On The Mount, and not enough like Revelations, which was very popular at the time. Also, there was the risk that introducing a woman's testimony in the bible would set a precedent that could would be allowed in the real world. (They felt were pushing it too far already with the women who discovered the tomb.)

Regarding Christ's childhood, there are apocryphal works, such as the story of his creating clay birds in front of other children. The children ran to Joseph, as this was considered idolatry. When Joseph asked Jesus if he was aware it was a sin, Jesus clapped his hands and the clay birds became real and flew away. Jesus then struck down the tattletale children with boils and some other vague illness and they evidently all died. This story was also rejected from canon, since it didn't fit the gospels very well.

It's not that we "don't know" about this period: we know as much about it as other periods. It just wasn't included in the bible, because it was not supporting the message the cardinals wanted to convey.

 

[bruto]

A bar can be set too high for a god-type thingy? That has to be some wimpish god-type thingy. Hardly worthy of the name, if you ask me. I like my mythical entities to have some real substance, like Aragorn. Not even a god-type thingy but catch him whining about the bar's height? Not a chance.

People credit God with everything from answered prayers for the lottery to tsunamis, not to mention creating the whole fricken universe in a short week, and one lousy amputee is setting the bar too high? According to the bible, Jesus brought back someone so dead he stank. If the old man is getting too feeble maybe it's time to bring back the kid.

 

[CapelDodger]

People credit God with everything from answered prayers for the lottery to tsunamis ...

Sometimes you just want to smack them, you know? It's unworthy, nothing to be proud of, but then we're not aspiring to sainthood, are we? I think it's healthy to have that kind of reaction. As long as we take a deep breath and don't follow through.

I was watching CNN a few years ago, some god-given atmospheric reminder had ripped through a clapboard community of Poor Black Christians, and there was this house standing proud (but battered and, I'm thinking, uninsured) with whole streets around it blown away. "God was thinkin' of me" said the lady of the house. WTF was he thinking about your neighbours and fellow church-goers? Was it a heavy day - one hurricane, one Poor Black Christian, can we get onto the more serious stuff? I signed off on the hurricane, Dick said we needed to do it, I signed off on the PBC, Uncle Karl said we needed to do it. Enough already.

I want evidence of the boy's plots against me. I don't want to be told that he isn't plotting. Of course he is. They always betray you, the fruit of your loins. Read the Bible. It's all in there.


Entering full ramble and get it off my chest mode ...

This local guy died some years ago at a venerable age surrounded by family and friends. The reason I know is that it hit the local press, and the reason it did that was that he gone over the top on the First Day of the Somme and a bullet lodged in the Gideon Bible he carried in his tunic pocket above his heart. God smiled upon him. His surviving sister was quoted as saying "We always knew he was marked out by God for something special". That was it, that was the story, and there was a photo. Local newspaper fare.

He died at 96. The only special thing that ever happened that is remotely connected with this chap's life - a fine, upstanding, decent one spent in the town he was born in and returned to - was that bullet and that Gideon Bible. But the well-worn words still tripped off the sister's tongue. You just want to slap people sometimes.

All the soldiers on that day had Gideon Bibles tailored for the tunic pocket. You can depend on the Gideonites(?) to spot a market. All the soldiers had them in their left breast pockets over where they imagined their hearts to be. They also had their cigarette case in there, their shaving-kit, letters from loved-ones taped to their chests, all in the desperate hope that they could end up just this side of the death-divide. 20,000 died. Of necessity they're not dying now and getting their names in the paper.

 

[trvlr2]

I'm not sure this is true: there are many apocryphal works. The reason they are not canon is that when the bible was constructed out of these many works, the objective was to fashion a more or less consistent narrative, and works that did not 'fit' were declared apocryphal.

For example, Evangelisa - the gospel of Mary Magdelaine (a walk with Christ through an olive grove) - was rejected because it was too much like the Sermon On The Mount, and not enough like Revelations, which was very popular at the time. Also, there was the risk that introducing a woman's testimony in the bible would set a precedent that could would be allowed in the real world. (They felt were pushing it too far already with the women who discovered the tomb.)

Regarding Christ's childhood, there are apocryphal works, such as the story of his creating clay birds in front of other children. The children ran to Joseph, as this was considered idolatry. When Joseph asked Jesus if he was aware it was a sin, Jesus clapped his hands and the clay birds became real and flew away. Jesus then struck down the tattletale children with boils and some other vague illness and they evidently all died. This story was also rejected from canon, since it didn't fit the gospels very well.

It's not that we "don't know" about this period: we know as much about it as other periods. It just wasn't included in the bible, because it was not supporting the message the cardinals wanted to convey.

For your reading pleasure try"The Gospel According To Biff", about jesus' missing years.

 

[trvlr2]

Find it here. Sorry, I goofed previous post.

/www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-According-Christs-Childhood/dp/0380813815

 

[RandFan]

Sometimes you just want to smack them, you know? It's unworthy, nothing to be proud of, but then we're not aspiring to sainthood, are we? I think it's healthy to have that kind of reaction. As long as we take a deep breath and don't follow through.

I was watching CNN a few years ago, some god-given atmospheric reminder had ripped through a clapboard community of Poor Black Christians, and there was this house standing proud (but battered and, I'm thinking, uninsured) with whole streets around it blown away. "God was thinkin' of me" said the lady of the house. WTF was he thinking about your neighbours and fellow church-goers? Was it a heavy day - one hurricane, one Poor Black Christian, can we get onto the more serious stuff? I signed off on the hurricane, Dick said we needed to do it, I signed off on the PBC, Uncle Karl said we needed to do it. Enough already.

I want evidence of the boy's plots against me. I don't want to be told that he isn't plotting. Of course he is. They always betray you, the fruit of your loins. Read the Bible. It's all in there.


Entering full ramble and get it off my chest mode ...

This local guy died some years ago at a venerable age surrounded by family and friends. The reason I know is that it hit the local press, and the reason it did that was that he gone over the top on the First Day of the Somme and a bullet lodged in the Gideon Bible he carried in his tunic pocket above his heart. God smiled upon him. His surviving sister was quoted as saying "We always knew he was marked out by God for something special". That was it, that was the story, and there was a photo. Local newspaper fare.

He died at 96. The only special thing that ever happened that is remotely connected with this chap's life - a fine, upstanding, decent one spent in the town he was born in and returned to - was that bullet and that Gideon Bible. But the well-worn words still tripped off the sister's tongue. You just want to slap people sometimes.

All the soldiers on that day had Gideon Bibles tailored for the tunic pocket. You can depend on the Gideonites(?) to spot a market. All the soldiers had them in their left breast pockets over where they imagined their hearts to be. They also had their cigarette case in there, their shaving-kit, letters from loved-ones taped to their chests, all in the desperate hope that they could end up just this side of the death-divide. 20,000 died. Of necessity they're not dying now and getting their names in the paper.

Great post. Thank you.