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If Saddam Had Stayed

I want Saddam back. I really miss that guy (sniff). I advocated putting Saddam back in power when Iraq was falling apart, but they just hung the man like a common criminal.

I always thought it was great that Saddam, Uday, and Kusay owned a fourth of the feckless oil monkeys' critical oil supply. I loved the way they assaulted Iran and took Kuwait over. There was a poetic justice to it. It was what the oil monkeys deserved - a dangerous, unstable oil hole dominated by three monkey-killing demons straight out of the bowels of hell. Life was good.

But now there's a stinking, trillion-dollar democratic republic sitting where Saddam used to be. Sure, there is still faith and hope among the neoprogs that the government will collapse and be taken over by another strongman, but will the Merkin meddlers allow that to happen? Not unless we can get someone like Dennis Kucinich or Harry Reid in the white house. And what are the chances of that? Besides, there will never be another Saddam. He was one of a kind.

I can't stand it. Beam me up, Scotty. Monkeyworld just isn't any fun any more.
 
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Saddam's regime killed about hundred and thrity people a day. The Iraq body count says 72 people a day died during the most violent period of the insurgency. Right now there are about 10 deaths a day. Removing Saddam saved lives. Lives the "anti-war" left didn't want saved.
 
BeAChooser said:
I'll just point out that I already addressed the issue of where Iraq's WMD may have gone using NUMEROUS sources, and also noted the discover of a still-viable binary sarin shell that was anything but ancient, rusting and unusable.
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I'm sorry, but somewhere in your wall of blather, I missed yopur documentation of that. It's the first I've heard of it, and I actually used to work regularly with soldiers who had been to Iraq, and may do so again soon.

The ISG said it's discover opened up the question of whether Iraq had more and in the end the ISG admitted they couldn't rule out that WMD went to Syria. Read the thread. :D
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And you can't rule out that Dick Cheney had the viable sarin round planted there so that he would look less the murderous putz that he is.
 
BeAChooser said:
Didn't you read the news at the time?

We invaded Afghanistan in part because al-Qaeda ran camps there where perhaps tens of thousands (according to some sources like http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,449990,00.html and http://articles.latimes.com/2002/sep/15/nation/na-terror15 ) of would be terrorists learned and honed their murderous skills. A lot of those came to Iraq after the invasion. Iraq was fly paper.
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I cannot think of anything that gives us the right to make flypaper of another country just to gratify the lust of a bunch of dirtbags like the signatories to the PNAC documents. Not a one of them has ever done anything good for America.


Finally, in all likelihood even if we hadn't invaded Iraq in 2003, the presence of terrorists in Iraq would have continued to grow exponentially. Especially if we'd focused on Aghanistan and Pakistan to such an extent that life became unbearable for them there. They were already establishing camps and a network in Iraq by the time we invaded. That activity would surely have grown regardless of an invasion.
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Neither you nor the idiot who wrote that opinion piece has a bloody clue whether those "terrorists in training" were any threat to us. They look to me like a very good idea for a country that is being messed with by other countries and which might have to take to the back country to stage a resistance to an invasion.
 
Virus said:
I thought you said we had no intel on Iraq.
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You do not need that much of an intelligence operation to know that a modernist Sunni is not going to be happy about a bunch of takfiri dirtbags who want him dead organizing a harb in his country.

There is no report from a reliable source that al Qaeda ever operated openly in any area firmly under Saddam's control.
 
So given that more people died as a result of Saddam's totalitarian apparatus of death than the insurgency, wouldn't you agree that the liberation of Iraq was a good thing?
 
Virus said:
So given that more people died as a result of Saddam's totalitarian apparatus of death than the insurgency,
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We do not know how many of the p[eople who died under Saddam were innocents or terrorists attempting to overthrow Saddam. We cannot even be sure of the numbers that he killed or whether any of the derogatory information available on him is true.

wouldn't you agree that the liberation of Iraq was a good thing?
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No. Wasn't our business, we couldn't afford it, and the idiot who came up with the idea was just trying to get even with a man who tried to off his daddy. This is especially sad because his daddy was trying to off Saddam. There was, thus, no real causus belli, but only the hurt feelings of an immature wet-brained dolt.
 
Virus said:
So given that more people died as a result of Saddam's totalitarian apparatus of death than the insurgency, wouldn't you agree that the liberation of Iraq was a good thing?
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Saddam had 23 years to get to that number though, the insurgency's only been going 7-odd years.
 
Do you support the murder of George H.W. Bush Leftysargent? You seem to imply that someone trying to kill your father is nothing to worry about.

The Casus Belli was the invasion of Kuwait, the systematic violation of the ceasefire and all UN resolutions against the regime. How many resolutions should we have let him break? How much longer should we have let him break them?
 
JihadJane said:
You don't care.
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What do you mean I don't care? Even if I didn't care, Iraq would still be better off as a US-allied democracy than as a totalitarian rogue state. You'd have to be a Marxist not to see that.
 
Virus said:
Saddam's regime killed about hundred and thrity people a day.
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There's a 700 page book out of France called "The Black Book of Saddam" that concludes Saddam killed about a million civilians and another million people overall. And that's prior to the war that toppled and killed him.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/180446.php "The Black Book of Saddam Hussein: 2 Million Dead"

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/5676,news-comment,news-politics,black-book-bares-full-horror-of-saddam

http://www.aei.org/article/24400

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20458

Now let's see. Saddam took power in 1979. So that's 24 years to 2003.

24 years * 365 days = 8760 days.

1 million dead / 8760 = 114 dead per day.

2 million dead / 8760 = 228 dead per day.

So actually, saying Saddam killed about 130 per day may be on the low side.
 
Inapplicable! See, he had largely beaten and murdered the population into submission by that time. So clearly the US is the bigger evil here.
 
leftysergeant said:
Originally Posted by BeAChooser
I'll just point out that I already addressed the issue of where Iraq's WMD may have gone using NUMEROUS sources, and also noted the discover of a still-viable binary sarin shell that was anything but ancient, rusting and unusable.

I'm sorry, but somewhere in your wall of blather, I missed yopur documentation of that. It's the first I've heard of it, and I actually used to work regularly with soldiers who had been to Iraq, and may do so again soon.
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This is a fine example of how clueless and out of touch you are, lefty. I couldn't count the number of times this has been mentioned and documented on this forum by me and others. Much less discussed in the media. And you missed them all? :rolleyes:

I just repost what I stated earlier in the thread about what the the ISG report (what better authority than that?) stated:

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5_annxF.html

The most interesting discovery has been a 152mm binary Sarin artillery projectile—containing a 40 percent concentration of Sarin—which insurgents attempted to use as an Improvised Explosive Device (IED). The existence of this binary weapon not only raises questions about the number of viable chemical weapons remaining in Iraq and raises the possibility that a larger number of binary, long-lasting chemical weapons still exist. ... snip ... ISG has no information to indicate that Iraq produced more binary Sarin rounds than it declared, however, former Iraqi scientists involved with the program admitted that the program was considered extremely successful and shelved for future use. According to the source, General Amer al-Saadi sought to downplay its findings to the UN to avoid heightened attention toward the program. ... snip ... Iraq only declared its work on binary munitions after Husayn Kamil fled Iraq in 1995, and even then only claimed to have produced a limited number of binary rounds that it used in field trials in 1988. UN investigations revealed a number of uncertainties surrounding the nature and extent of Iraq’s work with these systems and it remains unclear how many rounds it produced, tested, declared, or concealed from the UN."
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Satisfied? Or are you just hopeless because you imagine you are still sooooo *connected* with the military (assuming you ever actually were)? :D
 
Virus said:
Do you support the murder of George H.W. Bush Leftysargent? You seem to imply that someone trying to kill your father is nothing to worry about.
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It was a war. Stuff happens. GHWB was trying to off Saddam. Where's the beef?

The Casus Belli was the invasion of Kuwait, the systematic violation of the ceasefire and all UN resolutions against the regime. How many resolutions should we have let him break? How much longer should we have let him break them?
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Not our freaking business.
 
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