If only "One thing" exists, then...

lifegazer

Philosopher
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... Then it MUST be 'God', by default.

Even science seeks to unite everything to "one thing" - a theory of everything (a "TOE") seeks to relate all things to a single thing.
However, I contend that if One Thing is the cause of everything that proceeds it, then that "One Thing" must be 'God', by default. So even science is searching for God, as long as it seeks a singular theory or cause of everything that exists [within awareness].

The reason why I say that "One Thing" must = God, is completely logical:-
... If "One Thing" is the primal-cause of EVERYthing that proceeds it, then clearly, that thing is the absolute cause of all of those proceeding things. But it is impossible for any entity to be the absolute cause" of anything unless that entity first ~desires~ and then ~wills~ those proceeding effects into existence. I.e., 'will' and 'desire' must be attributes of a singular cause of any proceeding effects.

... What alternatives are there? None, as far as I'm concerned, since if only a singular entity exists and is the cause of all proceeding effects, then nothing else can be responsible for those effects.

This leaves science in a quandary, for it cannot seek a singular cause of all proceeding effects without invoking the attributes of desire and will. If it does do that, then science seeks a God.
The alternative is to seek a multiple cause of all things - but since the laws-of-physics are singular, this makes science redundant, because science knows of only One Law.

Please remember that no-thing within perception (sensory stimulae are not without cause) can be 'acausal' in itself. Therefore, spare me your mantras pertaining to QM.

Cheers.
 
begging the question when is/was there only one thing?

This is just an attempt to re-phrase Kalam and the Principle of sufficient reason. Failed before, give us something new!
 
lifegazer said:
But it is impossible for any entity to be the absolute cause" of anything unless that entity first ~desires~ and then ~wills~ those proceeding effects into existence.

As far as I can see, this is not evident.
 
Why should we have time for this crap if you don't?

If we bother to take the time to respond, will it matter? Or are you gone?

But it is impossible for any entity to be the absolute cause" of anything unless that entity first ~desires~ and then ~wills~ those proceeding effects into existence. I.e., 'will' and 'desire' must be attributes of a singular cause of any proceeding effects.

... What alternatives are there? None, as far as I'm concerned

Are you saying you will not consider any other possibility? Why must will and desire be present to effect something? Why do you offset will and desire, are you suggesting you are using them in a meaning other than their generally understood ones?
 
lifegazer said:
The reason why I say that "One Thing" must = God, is completely logical:-
... If "One Thing" is the primal-cause of EVERYthing that proceeds it, then clearly, that thing is the absolute cause of all of those proceeding things. But it is impossible for any entity to be the absolute cause" of anything unless that entity first ~desires~ and then ~wills~ those proceeding effects into existence. I.e., 'will' and 'desire' must be attributes of a singular cause of any proceeding effects.
Its not logical in the least. You are special pleading.

Also note: You are implicitly assuming your "primal cause" is deterministic in nature.

What alternatives are there? None, as far as I'm concerned
Alternatives include "the universe has always been there" and some interpretations of Quantum Mechanics (note this does not mean "acausal in itself"). Of course there are other alternatives, I'm just guiding you in the right direction.

This leaves science in a quandary, for it cannot seek a singular cause of all proceeding effects without invoking the attributes of desire and will. If it does do that, then science seeks a God.
I'm sorry, but I think its inappropriate that you choose to rename "the unknown" by the title "God". You are free to do so, however I think it will cause confusion.

The alternative is to seek a multiple cause of all things - but since the laws-of-physics are singular, this makes science redundant, because science knows of only One Law.
I dont know what this means.
 
lifegazer said:
If only "One thing" exists, then then it MUST be 'God', by default.
But it is quite easy to show that more than one thing exists. Therefore, by your own logic, God is not necessary.

Boy, that was easy.
 
Iacchus said:
So, in essence where did the Universe come from?
I don't know, but I refuse to make up some story or believe in someone elses made up story to cover for my ignorance. "I don't know" is the only truthful and honorable answer that any of us can give.
 
The only problem with this is that you speak of ignorance on the one hand, and truth and honorability on the other. Sounds to me like you have to decide which one it's going to be. If you don't know, how can you claim that nobody else knows? Ditto for argumentum ad ignorantiam who posted above you.
 
Iacchus...Read Mary Calkins's Philosophical Credo of an Absolutistic Personalist. She said it before you, she said it better than you, she said it beautifully, and she had the guts not to actually call it God, but to simply leave the absolute self nameless, and let the reader come to that conclusion alone.

She does it as a logical proof, like Decartes with cogito, ergo sum, beginning with "mental entities exist". If you agree with that statement, you are pretty much on board for the whole logical proof; she's that good. Of course, "mental entities exist" is not a statement that we can all agree on--I myself disagree with it--so her beautiful writing, and your own....writing... both lead nowhere.
 
Doctor X said:
Argumentum ad ignorantiam! I score a point!

--J.D.


Considering you're making a conlcusion without showing your reasoning, would I not be making a fallacy of appeal to authority if I simply take your word as true.

Would it not therefore be better to explain logically, rather than authoritatively, why it is an appeal to, or an argument from, ignorance.
 
lifegazer said:
... Then it MUST be 'God', by default.

Even science seeks to unite everything to "one thing" - a theory of everything (a "TOE") seeks to relate all things to a single thing.
However, I contend that if One Thing is the cause of everything that proceeds it, then that "One Thing" must be 'God', by default. So even science is searching for God, as long as it seeks a singular theory or cause of everything that exists [within awareness].

So? If it's found to be that there isn't a TOE, and quantum mechanics for some reason must stand seperate from physics, does that prove god does not exist?
 
Considering you're making a conlcusion without showing your reasoning, . . .

. . . [No Latin!--Ed.] "thing speaks for itself."

. . . would I not be making a fallacy of appeal to authority if I simply take your word as true.

No. Perhaps if you cited me; however, referral to the post in question would reveal why I recognized it as such.

Would it not therefore be better to explain logically, rather than authoritatively, why it is an appeal to, or an argument from, ignorance.

Would it not, therefore, prove more efficacious to simply ask why it is an argumentum ad ignorantiam and dispense with the circumlocution?

--J.D.
 
. . . [No Latin!--Ed.] "thing speaks for itself."

Well, if it's self evident that it is an argument from ignorance, then perhaps you can supply me with a definition of ignorance that infers the argument posed.



No. Perhaps if you cited me

I did cite you


...however, referral to the post in question would reveal why I recognized it as such.

Again, cite me a definiton of ignorance that infers the particular argument in question.


Would it not, therefore, prove more efficacious to simply ask why it is an argumentum ad ignorantiam

All of this would prove more efficacious if we knew why you think it's an argument ad ignorantiam, rather than to just keep stating that it is.

and dispense with the circumlocution?

Verbiage and evasive?

You like to practice what you preach don't you
 
Well, if it's self evident that it is an argument from ignorance, then perhaps you can supply me with a definition of ignorance that infers the argument posed.

You have to say the Magic Word.

No. Perhaps if you cited me

I did cite you

No, you merely quoted me. To cite me you would have had to use me for support.

Moi:...however, referral to the post in question would reveal why I recognized it as such.

Again, cite me a definiton of ignorance that infers the particular argument in question.

""Gasçon' means boy."

See above.


All of this would prove more efficacious if we knew why you think it's an argument ad ignorantiam, rather than to just keep stating that it is.

All of this would prove much more efficacious if you--since I am unaware of anyone else unless you have become plagued with delusions of royalty--read the referenced post then asked with a decorum befitting your pretense.

You like to practice what you preach don't you

Far better than my critics.

--J.D.
 

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