If not Hillary, who?

[logger]

All depends on what is considered acceptable ID.

For example, driver's licenses and passports both require either time or money to obtain, and not everyone serves in the military. If you are a poor person on a limited income, you may find that the time and/or money needed to obtain the relevant ID may be a significant hardship, whereas a wealthy voter living in the suburbs probably already has at least one of those forms of ID since they need it for there regular day-to-day lives.

States already offer to pay for dumb dems to get an ID

 

[logger]

I think its because she relied on putting forward realistic and coherent policies that would most likely work and improve the quality of life for Americans, which admittedly would make for a boring rally. On the other hand, the orangutan known as Trump likes to spew nonsense, which is certainly great for getting crowds riled up, but is far less useful in conveying useful information to voters.

I'm sure that's it. Lol

Hopefully the dems will agree with you.

 

[Upchurch]

What needs elaboration? Democratic leadership selected Clinton as their candidate years before the election, and both the leadership and Clinton "machine" discouraged other candidates from running. Bernie Sanders was disparaged as an interloper who was just getting in Clinton's way. If Clinton hadn't run, other, stronger candidates would have emerged.

Evidence of these claims?

Regardless, this suggests that the DNC had selected, or anointed, her. How does Clinton not "act like her anointed self"?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

...third world countries known as red states...

There it is in a nutshell.

 

[Donal]

Ya, speaking my mind and telling it like it is. Is "taker states" a better term? Since they receive far more federal aid dollars than they contribute?

The one bright spot is, with all the federal tax cuts that supposedly are coming, the states that actually support the country will no longer have to pay for the welfare states and we can focus on our own infrastructure and citizens. Maybe build a wall to keep the Red State Refugees out.

 

[Segnosaur]

States already offer to pay for dumb dems to get an ID

You have proof that every state that has enacted voter ID laws offers free IDs to all registered voters in the state?

More importantly, will the states also offer to pay all the secondary costs? (The potential needed to take time off work to go to whatever government office issues IDs, the cost of transportation, any secondary costs related to documentation problems.)

From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...14ca9de2972_story.html?utm_term=.c890828fd92c

a federal court in Washington concluded that the burden of obtaining a state voter-ID certificate would weigh disproportionately on minorities living in poverty, with many having to travel as much as 200 to 250 miles round trip.
Gee, I wonder who will pay for the costs of traveling 200 miles to get an ID? I doubt its the government.

Many of the residents struggling to obtain a valid photo ID are elderly and poor and were born in homes rather than hospitals. As a result, birth certificates were often lost or names were misspelled in official city records.
And with birth certificate problems, you have even more cost and hassle, which again the person won't be compensated for, even before they can get their "free" state-issued ID.

In one case, someone trying to get photo ID needed their birth certificate, which was only stored in the town they were born in, which required a drive of 100 miles.

 

[logger]

You have proof that every state that has enacted voter ID laws offers free IDs to all registered voters in the state?

More importantly, will the states also offer to pay all the secondary costs? (The potential needed to take time off work to go to whatever government office issues IDs, the cost of transportation, any secondary costs related to documentation problems.)

From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...14ca9de2972_story.html?utm_term=.c890828fd92c

a federal court in Washington concluded that the burden of obtaining a state voter-ID certificate would weigh disproportionately on minorities living in poverty, with many having to travel as much as 200 to 250 miles round trip.
Gee, I wonder who will pay for the costs of traveling 200 miles to get an ID? I doubt its the government.

Many of the residents struggling to obtain a valid photo ID are elderly and poor and were born in homes rather than hospitals. As a result, birth certificates were often lost or names were misspelled in official city records.
And with birth certificate problems, you have even more cost and hassle, which again the person won't be compensated for, even before they can get their "free" state-issued ID.

In one case, someone trying to get photo ID needed their birth certificate, which was only stored in the town they were born in, which required a drive of 100 miles.

Wow!

This is why this thinking is so ridiculous. There has to be much harder things in life than getting a photo ID. And yes, every state offers it free because liberals and the courts have forced them to so these stupid people can vote.

 

[Donal]

Voting is a fundamental right of every American. The government has to prove why I can't vote. I don't have to prove why I can.

 

[logger]

Voting is a fundamental right of every American. The government has to prove why I can't vote. I don't have to prove why I can.

The "why" would be if you aren't a citizen you can't vote.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Voting is a fundamental right of every American. The government has to prove why I can't vote. I don't have to prove why I can.

Absolutely no obligation to provide any documentation at all that you are in fact American?

Seems less like a hurdle than an obvious prerequisite.

 

[Whatfor]

Deleted, mistake.

 

[Whatfor]

It's too late to pick a better candidate for 2016. But for the upcoming 2020 election, the Democrats have a strong bench to draw from. Here is their current all star lineup -- anyone of them would be an improvement over Hillary:

Nancy Pelosi
Maxine Waters
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz
Chuck Schumer
Harry Reid
Al Gore
Joe Biden
Anthony Weiner
Chelsea Clinton
Tim Kaine
Elizabeth "Fauxcahontas" Warren
​

This is a joke, right?

 

[theprestige]

Voting is a fundamental right of every American. The government has to prove why I can't vote. I don't have to prove why I can.

But you are begging the question. If you claim that voting is the right of every American, then you must prove you are an American in order to justify exercising the right.

 

[Bob001]

But you are begging the question. If you claim that voting is the right of every American, then you must prove you are an American in order to justify exercising the right.

When you register to vote, you swear under penalty of perjury that you are entitled to do so. A majority of Americans who can vote don't; what could motivate somebody to risk a felony conviction just to register falsely? And a right is something you are presumed to have unless the authorities can prove you don't, unlike a privilege that you must prove you are entitled to exercise. You have a right to walk down a public street; you need a license to exercise the privilege of driving.

 

[Bob001]

deleted

 

[logger]

When you register to vote, you swear under penalty of perjury that you are entitled to do so. A majority of Americans who can vote don't; what could motivate somebody to risk a felony conviction just to register falsely? And a right is something you are presumed to have unless the authorities can prove you don't, unlike a privilege that you must prove you are entitled to exercise. You have a right to walk down a public street; you need a license to exercise the privilege of driving.

And cops have the right to question your walking?

 

[Bob001]

And cops have the right to question your walking?

The cops can talk to you if they want to. But they can't hold you and you don't have to talk to them unless they have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. That doesn't mean that some cops won't violate your right, just as some states have tried to infringe on the right to vote.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/stopping-questioning-people-street.html

 

[Bob001]

Wow!

This is why this thinking is so ridiculous. There has to be much harder things in life than getting a photo ID. And yes, every state offers it free because liberals and the courts have forced them to so these stupid people can vote.

Sure. But if you make it hard enough, a lot of people won't bother. And it's harder for people who don't have much money, who don't have a car to drive to a distant DMV office, who can't take unpaid time off work to go to the DMV during the day, who can't find their birth certificate and don't have money or resources to get a copy, etc., etc. It's hardest for people in states where voter ID laws have been deliberately crafted to cut out blacks and the poor. And interestingly, it seems to be people who call themselves Constitution-loving conservatives who are most eager to make fair elections toughest. Why don't you just tell us only free white male landowners should be allowed to vote?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Wow!

This is why this thinking is so ridiculous. There has to be much harder things in life than getting a photo ID. And yes, every state offers it free because liberals and the courts have forced them to so these stupid people can vote.

Doesn't matter if there are harder things in life, it matters that it is harder on some people than others and the observable results disproportionately impact certain demographics. This is called 'indirect disenfranchisement' and has been repeatedly struck down in its many varied forms as they have been attempted. The Poll Tax didn't inherently claim to be racially targeted, but it very clearly produced that result and so it had to go and for good reason.

The Voter ID laws are just a slightly more obscure poll tax.

Notice we aren't talking about registration, so the 'you have to be a citizen to vote' line of attack doesn't apply. You proved your eligibility when you registered. Voter ID has to do with the actual polling place and claiming the identity of a person registered at that location. It's not like the existing laws had zero safeguards, the new laws simply restrict valid IDs down to a select few.

Yes 'liberals and the courts' have forced state governments to respect the universal franchise, the sky must be falling.

Also, can you please prove a definitive link between people who lack the resources to easily obtain proper ID and stupidity? Are you proposing some kind of intelligence test for voting, as well? The history of tests and voting is another example that has a demonstrated effect of disproportionate impact on demographics.

 

[bruto]

Most of us don't have to identify ourselves to vigilantes whose stated goal is to prevent us from voting. Those who are inconvenienced by laws requiring a photo ID to get past selective challenges are "these stupid people."

I don't think a really rational argument is going to happen here.