If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. Part II

[beachnut]

Here is a link to the 2004 edition: www.sierragal.com/252_stuff/NFPA_921.pdf

lol, and your Gish Gallop of BS follows, and how does this support Cole's failed claims, and Gage's delusional CD lies?

21.3.2 - High-Order Damage. High-order damage is characterized by shattering of the structure, producing small, pulverized debris. Walls, roofs, and structural members are splintered or shattered, with the building completely demolished. Debris is thrown great distances, possibly hundreds of feet. High-order damage is the result of rapid rates of pressure rise.

Obviously, this applies to the WTC. "Debris thrown great distances" even applies to the WTC 7, because of two witness sources that say that an entire elevator car came out of it's shaft and was in the hallway.

Really, you missed the fact the gravity collpase of the WTC towers were more energy than 100 2,000 pounds bombs; thus a gravity collapse of the towers damage is due to the energy of the towers not explosives; thus this is BS; AKA DEBUNKED. You can't provide evidence for explosives, so you make up BS, and failed.

22.2.4.1 - Exotic accelerants ...
There are credible witnesses to molten steel, like Astaneh, and artifacts from ground zero which have been claimed to contain molten steel and/or concrete. It's worth at least testing some of the material like Steven Jones did. Some particles found in the WTC dust could have only been formed by temperatures well over the melting point of iron.

Sorry, there was no melted steel, Astaneh said so; but ask him to update this; and show me the melted steel, and concrete; there was none. Thus you failed again.

The accelerants used on 9/11 in the towers was 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, 66,000 pounds, the most ordinary accelerants ever used by the arsonists, the terrrorists in planes. Oops, you are debunked again. Jones did not find thermite, his samples did not match the energy release of thermite; failure again. Double failure using quote mines and lies. How can you save Cole with a failed Gish Gallop on Jones and other failed "experts".

A) Terrorism. The targets set by terrorists may appear to be at random; however, target locations are generally selected with some degree of political or economic significance. ...
Obviously 9/11 was terrorism, and saying "But a plane hit the building" is not an excuse to not have an arson investigation.

Wow, this was the weakest point, and supports the official story. Did you mean to debunk yourself? You just debunked CD too.

18.4.5 - Unusual residues might remain from the initial fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite, magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials.

Iron microspheres similar to the kind produced by thermitic materials, with no peer-reviewed science that these spheres can be produced by building fires or building rubble.

Iron microspheres form in fires, you lost this one too. Thermite was lie, no steel was damaged on 9/11 by thermite, and you and Cole can't produce evidence steel was damaged by thermite; you are debunked by lack of evidence and bringing up the lie of thermite again.

21.4.1.3 Negative Pressure Phase. 21.4.1.3.1 - As the extremely rapid expansion of the positive pressure phase of the explosion moves outward from the origin of the explosion,...

"Everything went out of me with this massive wind... Stuff was just flying past. Then it stopped and got really quiet, and then everything came back at us. I could breathe at this point, but now I was sucking all that stuff in, too. It was almost like a back draft. It sounded like a tornado." -Former Army sergeant and police officer Sue Keane

Sorry, big failure, an explosives would kill those near it, and a falling building mores tons of air which account for the stuff flying past. You debunked yourself again with quote-mined witnesses who explained the effects of a gravity collapse.

23.8.2.2 Shrapnel Injuries. Shrapnel (solid fragments) traveling at high speeds from the epicenter of an explosion can cause amputations, dismemberment, lacerations or perforations resembling stab wounds, localized blunt trauma such as broken and crushed bones, and soft tissue damage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/911truth/comments/4g1b6h/shrapnel_injury_the_next_body_bag_held_only_a_leg/

Are you trying to make a case for silent explosives, or that thermite cuts off legs, and steel building falling can't? Debunked again due to BS.
Is it explosives, silent ones, or thermite? Make up your fantasy mind stuff.

There you go. That's more than enough. Even if the WTC exhibited none of these characteristics, destructive elements other than the aircraft should have been investigated because 9/11 should have been the most over-investigated event ever.

It was investigated, the FBI found it was fire caused by the terrorist attack, and so did NIST, and rational people. Only 911 truth can't figure out 9/11, and Gage is making close to a million dollars a year selling lies to fools, and taking donations which do nothing.

How does this failed Gish Gallop support Cole's failed CD claims, and silly experiments?

Where do you guys get the silent explosives and the thermite which leaves no damage on the steel? Is there a special store to get these things in the Fantasy Version of yours?

 

[DGM]

Because there could be a God? We could all be living in a simulation. You could be living in a simulation and everybody else is just an illusion. You could've been brought into existence a moment ago and all your memories could just be your mind attempting to make sense of the situation.

This is not the religion forum. What you post has nothing to do with why I'm agnostic.

Phone calls aren't peer-reviewed. I'm awkward on the phone anyway.

Sounds like a cop out. So you plan to post on internet forums hoping someone will achieve your goal for you? Sounds sad to me (and counter-productive).

 

[TJM]

I have actually attempted to find the online profiles of some of the firefighters and fire chiefs that were involved in WTC 7, or said something interesting about WTC 7, but they all don't really have an online presence I could find.

I'd be willing to wager their lack of on-line presence is entirely due to the desire to not be bothered by people "just asking questions".

Either way, NIST has no good reason not to release their interview transcripts.

Sure they do. I can think of at least one very good reason. You can't?

One which could settle a lot of disputes is their transcripts of their interview with Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, but my request for that was rejected.

Barry Jennings would tell his story to anyone who'd listen. The only mystery here is which version he told NIST.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Here is a link to the 2004 edition: www.sierragal.com/252_stuff/NFPA_921.pdf

21.3.2 - High-Order Damage. High-order damage is characterized by shattering of the structure, producing small, pulverized debris. Walls, roofs, and structural members are splintered or shattered, with the building completely demolished. Debris is thrown great distances, possibly hundreds of feet. High-order damage is the result of rapid rates of pressure rise.

Obviously, this applies to the WTC. "Debris thrown great distances" even applies to the WTC 7, because of two witness sources that say that an entire elevator car came out of it's shaft and was in the hallway.

22.2.4.1 - Exotic accelerants have been hypothesized as having been used to start or accelerate some rapidly growing fires and were referred to in these particular instances as high temperature accelerants (HTA). Indicators of exotic accelerants include an exceedingly rapid rate of fire growth, brilliant flares (particularly at the start of the fire), and melted steel or concrete. A study of 25 fires suspected of being associated with HTAs during the 1981–1991 period revealed that there was no conclusive scientific proof of the use of such HTA.

There are credible witnesses to molten steel, like Astaneh, and artifacts from ground zero which have been claimed to contain molten steel and/or concrete. It's worth at least testing some of the material like Steven Jones did. Some particles found in the WTC dust could have only been formed by temperatures well over the melting point of iron.

A) Terrorism. The targets set by terrorists may appear to be at random; however, target locations are generally selected with some degree of political or economic significance. Political targets generally include government offices, newspapers, universities, political party headquarters, and military or law enforcement installations. Political terrorists may also target diverse properties such as animal research facilities or abortion clinics. Economic targets may include business offices, distribution facilities of utility providers (e.g., atomic generation plants), banks, or companies thought to have an adverse impact on the environment. Fires or explosions become a means of creating confusion, fear, or anarchy. The terrorist may include fire as but one of a variety of weapons, along with explosives, used in furthering his or her goal.

Obviously 9/11 was terrorism, and saying "But a plane hit the building" is not an excuse to not have an arson investigation.

18.4.5 - Unusual residues might remain from the initial fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite, magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials.

Iron microspheres similar to the kind produced by thermitic materials, with no peer-reviewed science that these spheres can be produced by building fires or building rubble.

21.4.1.3 Negative Pressure Phase. 21.4.1.3.1 - As the extremely rapid expansion of the positive pressure phase of the explosion moves outward from the origin of the explosion, it displaces, compresses, and heats the ambient surrounding air. A low air pressure condition (relative to ambient) is created at the epicenter or origin. When the positive pressure phase dissipates, air rushes back to the area of origin to equilibrate the low air pressure condition, creating the negative pressure phase.

"Everything went out of me with this massive wind... Stuff was just flying past. Then it stopped and got really quiet, and then everything came back at us. I could breathe at this point, but now I was sucking all that stuff in, too. It was almost like a back draft. It sounded like a tornado." -Former Army sergeant and police officer Sue Keane

23.8.2.2 Shrapnel Injuries. Shrapnel (solid fragments) traveling at high speeds from the epicenter of an explosion can cause amputations, dismemberment, lacerations or perforations resembling stab wounds, localized blunt trauma such as broken and crushed bones, and soft tissue damage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/911truth/comments/4g1b6h/shrapnel_injury_the_next_body_bag_held_only_a_leg/

There you go. That's more than enough. Even if the WTC exhibited none of these characteristics, destructive elements other than the aircraft should have been investigated because 9/11 should have been the most over-investigated event ever.

Rubbish you want to come down and watch me make microspheres or macrospheres in a chimney effect, how about witnessing a natural aluminothermic reaction?
Your making me laugh.

 

[ProBonoShill]

I don't care to respond to you point-by-point. IMO you're just... confused. It's like you were reading something I didn't write. You insist on settling matters on internet forums yet you'll turn around and play appeal to authority when it pleases you. The WTC destruction deserves an arson investigation by experts.

Well thanks for admitting you have nothing, make sure you let us know when you get that new investigation sparky, 16 years of failure and counting!

 

[FalseFlag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGX9CRN_vgA

Nice.

 

[FalseFlag]

Well thanks for admitting you have nothing, make sure you let us know when you get that new investigation sparky, 16 years of failure and counting!

If you can't count, what makes you think you are right about the official story? 9/11/2001 was less than 15 years ago. AE911T has not been around since 9/11. Where do you get 16 years from? Is that how skeptics do math? It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[ProBonoShill]

I could've sworn Youtuber David Chandler compelled NIST to admit freefall of Building 7. Must have been a dream.

Ummm, NIST didn't "admit" to anything, that brief period of freefall wasn't mentioned at first because they didn't deem it relevant and they were right.

Did that get you a new investigation?

No?

Why do you think that was?

 

[ProBonoShill]

If you can't count, what makes you think you are right about the official story? 9/11/2001 was less than 15 years ago. AE911T has not been around since 9/11. Where do you get 16 years from? Is that how skeptics do math? It wouldn't surprise me.

You don't really think I'm going to respond to your posts when you dodge all of mine do you?

You do know the lurkers can see all the posts you ignore right?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

You don't really think I'm going to respond to your posts when you dodge all of mine do you?

You do know the lurkers can see all the posts you ignore right?

In a thread littered with truther intellectually dishonesty, the question is why truthers even bother embarrassing themselves further?

 

[MicahJava]

MicahJava: I'll help you. Here is thier contact information. Let us know what they say. OK?

http://www.nfpa.org/help

I just made an account and sent them an email.

 

[MicahJava]

Rubbish you want to come down and watch me make microspheres or macrospheres in a chimney effect, how about witnessing a natural aluminothermic reaction?
Your making me laugh.

Where's the literature that demonstrates that you can create iron microspheres (like the kind from thermite) from doing that? Also, I vaguely recall you claiming on a forum that you have enough information on natural aluminothermic reactions in building rubble to write a whole scientific article on it. What happened to that? Forum posts don't count!

The microspheres perfectly fit what the NFPA 921 describes as unusual residue arising from exotic accelerants such as thermite.

 

[MicahJava]

Ummm, NIST didn't "admit" to anything, that brief period of freefall wasn't mentioned at first because they didn't deem it relevant and they were right.

Did that get you a new investigation?

No?

Why do you think that was?

Nope, NIST and Shayam Sunder not only erroneously claimed that there was no freefall, but stated that freefall would be incompatible with the structural failure they were studying. Only in their Final Report did they get around to admitting freefall and omitting the phrase "consistent with physical principals".

 

[FalseFlag]

Barry Jennings would tell his story to anyone who'd listen. The only mystery here is which version he told NIST.

Are you sure that's the only mystery involving Barry Jennings?

 

[beachnut]

If you can't count, what makes you think you are right about the official story? 9/11/2001 was less than 15 years ago. AE911T has not been around since 9/11. Where do you get 16 years from? Is that how skeptics do math? It wouldn't surprise me.

He won the million dollar prize, he can tell the future; and you can't figure out CD is a lie, and Cole is dumber than dirt.

You are gullible, and the posts prove it.

 

[MicahJava]

Barry Jennings would tell his story to anyone who'd listen. The only mystery here is which version he told NIST.

I'm even more interested in what story Michael Hess told NIST in 2004 versus what story he told in 2008 after Barry died.

 

[FalseFlag]

I just made an account and sent them an email.

You might want to consider posting the email and redacting any personal information. No, you don't have to, but the more information you can provide, the better.

More information creates more work for the "skeptics".

 

[beachnut]

I'm even more interested in what story Michael Hess told NIST in 2004 versus what story he told in 2008 after Barry died.

No CD, and not explosives, no thermite? lol, you got no evidence, and it shows.

Nope, NIST and Shayam Sunder not only erroneously claimed that there was no freefall, but stated that freefall would be incompatible with the structural failure they were studying. Only in their Final Report did they get around to admitting freefall and omitting the phrase "consistent with physical principals".

LOL, another lie, it is in the data, they never said that about free-fall, you made that up. Why do you make up BS about 9/11 like Cole does?

Got some evidence for CD? No. Same as Cole and Gage. Zero evidence, no clue for 14 years.

 

[MicahJava]

There was already a massive investigation, if you can't comprehend the results too bad for you.

Oh, awesome. There was an investigation? Can you link to me the inquiry into who that engineer was who told Chief Peter Hayden at 12:00-1:00 PM that WTC 7 was going to collapse in "five or six hours"? I was pretty curious of who that character was. Predicting when a skyscraper will collapse from fire when the heavy fires were only burning for about an hour, I think he deserves James Randi's million dollar prize because he's psychic!

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Where's the literature that demonstrates that you can create iron microspheres (like the kind from thermite) from doing that? Also, I vaguely recall you claiming on a forum that you have enough information on natural aluminothermic reactions in building rubble to write a whole scientific article on it. What happened to that? Forum posts don't count!

The microspheres perfectly fit what the NFPA 921 describes as unusual residue arising from exotic accelerants such as thermite.

Iron can be reduced or oxygenized at low temperatures.

Provided a reducing atmosphere is induced in a high carbon, carbon monoxide atmosphere.

Why do I need to publish the reduction and ignition of Iron in the presence of Aluminum is the trigger factor to Aluminothermic reactions.