If Gaza is no longer occupied by Israel....

[little grey rabbit]

Why can not the Gazans control who enters their martime waters or not?

Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship
Page last updated at 5:01 GMT, Monday, 31 May 2010 6:01 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version The flotilla sailed from Cyprus on Sunday The Israeli navy has stormed at least one of a convoy of ships carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza strip, amid reports of casualties on board.

Some reports say two people have been killed and about 30 injured. Israel has declined to comment.

The exact location of the interception is unclear. Israel had warned the ships not to enter its territorial waters.

The ships are carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid to the Gaza Strip in an effort to break an Israeli blockade.

Turkish TV pictures taken on board the Turkish ship leading the flotilla show Israeli soldiers fighting to control passengers.

The footage showed a number of people, apparently injured, lying on the ground. The sound of gunshots could be heard. It is not clear whether the fighting is ongoing.

Al-Jazeera TV reported from the same ship that Israeli navy forces had fired and boarded the vessel, wounding the captain.

The Al-Jazeera broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!".

"Provocation'

The six-ship flotilla left international waters off the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and was expected to arrive in Gaza later on Monday.

Israel has said it would stop the boats, calling the campaign a "provocation intended to delegitimise Israel".

An economic blockade was imposed by Israel after the Islamist movement Hamas took power in Gaza.

Israel says it allows about 15,000 tones of humanitarian aid into Gaza every week.

But the United Nations says this is less than a quarter of what is needed.

Hamas, a militant palestinian group that controls the Gaza strip, has fired thousands of rockets into Israel over the past decade.

Of course, Gaza is still occupied and it simply Israeli hypocrisy that claims otherwise. The amazing thing is how they can cow American and Europe into agreeing with them.

 

[Mycroft]

Why can not the Gazans control who enters their martime waters or not?



Of course, Gaza is still occupied and it simply Israeli hypocrisy that claims otherwise. The amazing thing is how they can cow American and Europe into agreeing with them.

So we've created a new definition of "occupied" that includes any area under blockade?

Doesn't this Orwellian manipulation of language get tiresome?

If you want to say you disagree with the Israeli blockade of Gaza, why not just say that? Why do you have to try to insist on describing it with a word that doesn't fit?

 

[bit_pattern]

How is holding a country under seige via a naval blockade NOT occupation?

Reports of up to 20 activists dead

http://www.theage.com.au/world/more...s-israeli-army-20100531-wq8y.html?autostart=1

Listen to the chilling audio feed from Australian journalist Paul McGeogh onboard the flotilla as it was attacked by Israeli commando's, cut of mid-feed

http://media.theage.com.au/world/world-news/confrontation-on-the-high-seas-1526845.html

 

[lionking]

How is holding a country under seige via a naval blockade NOT occupation?

Huh? Was Cuba occupied when the US imposed a naval blockade?

 

[McHrozni]

How is holding a country under seige via a naval blockade NOT occupation?

The very same way a ship upholding a naval blockade is not strawberry ice cream.

McHrozni

 

[bit_pattern]

All reports are that they were on the high seas anyway, so this was an act of piracy, plain and simple.

Huh? Was Cuba occupied when the US imposed a naval blockade?

Basically, yes.

 

[McHrozni]

All reports are that they were on the high seas anyway, so this was an act of piracy, plain and simple.

That may be true.

Basically, yes.

Was Germany under British occupation from 1939-45, then?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Were any of those examples under direct military occupation for forty years before troops pulled out and maintained control over the territory by way of a military siege and naval blockade? I'm willing o concede on the semantics of "blockade" because this isn't a blockade, it is a siege. Gaza is basically the worlds largest open-air prison.

Progress is apparent. Indeed, it's not an occupation. You probably never heard of North Korea, though.
Here, something to start you with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_korea

McHrozni

 

[bit_pattern]

A naval "battle"? Oh, do go on, this should be rich. They just murdered up to 20 people, I've seen the footage, heard audio and audio feed from an Australian journalist on board the flotilla at the time of occupation, Israeli commando's were firing on people who for all intents and purposes appear to be readying to comply with the demands being made over loudspeaker from the encircling Zodiac gunships. There is no sign of aggressive action from the activists, and clear signs of the commando's firing down on an unarmed and passive crowd. Oh, what a glorious naval battle that must have been

 

[webfusion]

Why can not the Gazans control who enters their martime waters or not?

Because "Gazans" do not have such authority.
In the same way that "Floridians" cannot decide on their own to just allow ships or boats carrying who-knows-what to arrive and dock willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere.

If the "Gazans" want to be invested with such authority, they'll need to elect a Government besides the Internationally-recognized terrorists of HAMAS.

Israel has no interest in allowing HAMAS to turn Gaza into a base of jihadist terrorist operations, with airline and ship access without any oversight.

The aim of this flotilla was to open a crack in the door, and start a flow of ships or boats carrying who-knows-what to arrive and dock willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere.

The failure of the flotilla to accomplish that (even though there was tragic loss of life in stopping them) is a huge benefit for Israel. Huge.

By the way, Israeli Defense Forces spokespersons are confirming that the commandos came under organized and well-planned attack when they boarded the ships.
Several of the 'humanitarians' on those ships fired handguns at the soldiers, who returned fire and killed them in the fight.

 

[bit_pattern]

Because "Gazans" do not have such authority.
In the same way that "Floridians" cannot decide on their own to just allow ships or boats carrying who-knows-what to arrive and dock willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere.

If the "Gazans" want to be invested with such authority, they'll need to elect a Government besides the Internationally-recognized terrorists of HAMAS.

Israel has no interest in allowing HAMAS to turn Gaza into a base of jihadist terrorist operations, with airline and ship access without any oversight.

So much for dmocracy!

The aim of this flotilla was to open a crack in the door, and start a flow of ships or boats carrying who-knows-what to arrive and dock willy-nilly anywhere and everywhere.

The failure of the flotilla to accomplish that (even though there was tragic loss of life in stopping them) is a huge benefit for Israel. Huge.

Yeah, their biggest regional ally has just severed ties after several of its nationals were murdered.

By the way, Israeli Defense Forces spokespersons are confirming that the commandos came under organized and well-planned attack when they boarded the ships.
Several of the 'humanitarians' on those ships fired handguns at the soldiers, who returned fire and killed them in the fight.

And the IDF propaganda bureau has such a good track record of telling the truth

I've seen an Isreali journalist being interviewed on Australian TV tonight and he was calling it a huge debacle and are saying in disbelieving tone that Israel had better come up with definitive proof of gunfire by the time they reach port or this is oing o backfire hugely for Israel

 

[Skeptic]

There is no sign of aggressive action from the activists, and clear signs of the commando's firing down on an unarmed and passive crowd.

Which, by a mysterious coincidence, had unarmedly and passively managed to seriously injure five commandos with knives and guns. But APART from THAT they were totally unarmed and passive.

Anyway, they could have complied for three days before with the navy's orders. But hey, when you prepare an ambush to the boarding party, send aid to Hamas, chant how all the Jews will be killed like Muhammad did to the Jews of Kuriyesh, board a flotilla aimed at breaking an international blockade, and refuse to stop when repeatedly ordered -- well, in that case, being shot by Israeli commandos is part of the risk you take.

 

[webfusion]

The number of dead is irrelevant. The commandos fired to protect themselves from a "lynch" that had been well-prepared and organized. Axes, knives, iron bars and handguns all were employed against the IDF teams that boarded.

If the ships had been sunk outright, the result would have been the same ---- stopping them from gaining access to Gaza.

The outcry about this will last a while, yes, but the bottom line is this:
Gaza is still 'effed.

 

[lionking]

Firing on a boarding party is certain to end in tears.

 

[McHrozni]

So much for dmocracy!

You seem to be of an opinion that elections are the first and final stepping stone of democracy. That's not just false, it's retarded.

And the IDF propaganda bureau has such a good track record of telling the truth

And journalists on alleged humanitarian missions do?

I've seen an Isreali journalist being interviewed on Australian TV tonight and he was calling it a huge debacle and are saying in disbelieving tone that Israel had better come up with definitive proof of gunfire by the time they reach port or this is oing o backfire hugely for Israel

Oh, certainly. I'm quite sure there will be hell to pay with a death toll like this.
That doesn't mean the flotilla was completely innocent of any wrongdoing.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

The number of dead is irrelevant. The commandos fired to protect themselves from a "lynch" that had been well-prepared and organized. Axes, knives, iron bars and handguns all were employed against the IDF teams that boarded.

Incidentally, are handguns permitted for crews of merchant ships on high seas?
With all the problems this causes among pirates in Somalia, special security crews need to be on board and so on, I think the answer may be no, but I don't know enough to say.

McHrozni

 

[bit_pattern]

Which, by a mysterious coincidence, had unarmedly and passively managed to seriously injure five commandos with knives and guns. But APART from THAT they were totally unarmed and passive.

Anyway, they could have complied for three days before with the navy's orders. But hey, when you prepare an ambush to the boarding party, send aid to Hamas, chant how all the Jews will be killed like Muhammad did to the Jews of Kuriyesh, board a flotilla aimed at breaking an international blockade, and refuse to stop when repeatedly ordered -- well, in that case, being shot by Israeli commandos is part of the risk you take.

Oh, yeah, like Gaza poses this HUGE and EXISTENTIAL threat to Israel - a nuclear armed state with one of th worlds most efficient militaries

I wonder if you realise that the Palestinian Arabs were among the most secular in the region BEFORE Israel waged a forty year long brutal occupation on them? Or that they voted for Hamas because Fatah were so woeful and corrupt, or that Fatah was basically given the leadership of the Palestinians when Israel railroaded the moderates at Madrid and legitimised Arafat as leader, or that Israel could have solved this problem back in '67 when Moshe Dayan was telling thm that to occupy an entire people would be death for the soul of Israel? But, oh no, obviously the Ayrabs are obviously all just bloodthirsty Islamists and that's the end of the story

Obviously too, the IDF never lie about these things, like how thy told the truth about using white phosphorous, or targetting civilians etc etc etc. Obviously the video footage is all lies and the blood thirsty Islamsit attacked the poor defenseless IDF with powerful Level 10+ Mage Scissor Lynch attacks, forcing them to respond with the sort of proportional restraint they've shown in every conflict they've been in, when leveling apartment buildings with Apache gunships, or dumping millions of cluster bombs on the border of Lebanon in the closing days of a conflict where they've demolished Southern Lebanon in response to a cross border skirmish and the capture of one or two IDF members ( and it's not like Israel ever do that in Lebanon or the territories, oh no, they are pure as the driven snow!). Poor Israel, always the David against their Goliath, because we all know that M-16's and helicoptor gunships and commando's facing up against well organised humanitarian activists pale in comparison to knives, and sling shots. Poor, por Israel, it under EXISTENTIAL threat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYskawC6-GY

 

[MaGZ]

How is holding a country under seige via a naval blockade NOT occupation?

Reports of up to 20 activists dead

http://www.theage.com.au/world/more...s-israeli-army-20100531-wq8y.html?autostart=1

Listen to the chilling audio feed from Australian journalist Paul McGeogh onboard the flotilla as it was attacked by Israeli commando's, cut of mid-feed

http://media.theage.com.au/world/world-news/confrontation-on-the-high-seas-1526845.html

The Israelis will call a commission to investigate the incident and all will soon be forgotten. I do not believe for one minute there were any Israeli dead or injured in this attack.

Remember the Liberty!

 

[bit_pattern]

The Israelis will call a commission to investigate the incident and all will soon be forgotten. I do not believe for one minute there were any Israeli dead or injured in this attack.

Remember the Liberty!

I can't wait to hear from Paul McGeogh, the Australian journalist aboard the flotilla, whose audio feed went silent as Israel attacked. Let's hope and pray he is OK, because Israel has a nasty record of silencing murdering journalists who don't tow the official line

http://www.cpj.org/killed/mideast/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/

 

[bit_pattern]

And journalists on alleged humanitarian missions do?

Ah, let the slander begin! Anyone who doesn't tow the party line MUST be vilified! FYI McGeogh is one of THE most respected foreign correspondents in the Australian media. I'll be very interested to hear his account, it will certainly be a lot more balanced than anything you likely to read in JPost, the IDF's official propaganda wing. If he's still alive that is


DFAT can't confirm the welfare of journalists Paul McGeough and Kate Geraghty