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If Everyone in the world was atheistic would there be more or less crime

DOC

Philosopher
D
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
7,959
First of all, let me point out I'm not saying people who claim to be Christian or Jewish or any other theist belief don't commit crimes. And I'm not saying that there aren't some very ethical atheists out there. But in my opinion, if everyone in the world (rich, poor, and middle class) was atheistic and believed there was nothing after death, I would have to believe there would be more crime in the world.
 
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DOC said:
First of all, let me point out I'm not saying people who claim to be Christian or Jewish or any other theist belief don't commit crimes. And I'm not saying that there aren't some very ethical atheists out there. But in my opinion, if everyone in the world (rich, poor, and middle class) was atheistic and believed there was nothing after death, I would have to believe there would be more crime in the world.
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I don’t see why creating an imaginary entity is necessary for keeping crime rates low. I think that’s undervaluing humanity.

Perhaps Hitchens’ challenge is sufficient: (1) Name a moral act or statement by a theist that could not have been done by a non-theist. (2) Name a wicked action that could only have been derived directly from theistic justification.
 
For example, think of a poor neighborhood in your area. Now take away all the churches in those poor neighborhoods, because if everyone was atheistic there would be no church going.
And if you take away those churches you'll also have to take away any charity work done by those churches. I have to believe if you took away the churches and charity work those churches do, crime would increase in that area.
 
I less than three logic said:
So you think a significant number of theist are only good out of fear of punishment?
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That's one reason, but I would think that reason would apply more to atheists. Theists would have the added benefit of a possible afterlife reward which would not apply to atheists.

It would also seem that Theists would have more of the guilt factor that they were violating one of God's rules that a atheist would be less likely to have. It would seem rational to conclude that less guilty feelings means more crime.
 
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Except when god's laws say that it is ok to kill & murder other nationalities, than they have no trouble committing said atrocities...Religion has given the "it's OK because god said so" stamp to some pretty hideous actions. I'm pretty sure that there have been more wars along religious differences than secular ones...
 
I would think that an atheist, knowing we only have this life, would want to do the best of it, and not destroy it by committing crimes.
 
DOC said:
But in my opinion, if everyone in the world (rich, poor, and middle class) was atheistic and believed there was nothing after death, I would have to believe there would be more crime in the world.
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Even if this were the case, it wouldn't have any bearing on whether or not your imaginary friend actually exists.
 
DOC said:
That's one reason, but I would think that reason would apply more to atheists. Theists would have the added benefit of a possible afterlife reward which would not apply to atheists.

It would also seem that Theists would have more of the guilt factor that they were violating one of God's rules that a atheist would be less likely to have.
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That makes no sense. Why would current atheists start committing more crimes if there were more atheists? Seems to me the only place these additional crimes could come from is the section of the population who were once theists.

Also, as a little side note, it's interesting that you capitalized "Theists" but not "atheists". ;)
 
DOC said:
For example, think of a poor neighborhood in your area. Now take away all the churches in those poor neighborhoods, because if everyone was atheistic there would be no church going.
And if you take away those churches you'll also have to take away any charity work done by those churches. I have to believe if you took away the churches and charity work those churches do, crime would increase in that area.
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So if we made a poor neighborhoods poorer (taking away charity) crime rate would rise? Quite possibly. What if we replaced the church charity with secular charity?

Seriously, I live in a country where the majority, while still loosely connected to the state church, are functional atheists. They don't make daily prayers, they only attend church service on special occasions (christening, confirmation, wedding, funeral, an occation Christmass service), and they certainly don't think of god on a daily basis. Church charity is marginal, all support of poor is secular.

So for most purposes, Denmark is your atheist society. Crime rate? Very low compared with most parts of the USA.

Do your own math.

ETA: But since you brought this issue up: Do you think people should believe in God because that may lower the crime-rate, or because he exists?

Hans
 
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Please look at other developed countries outside the US, where religion is on the wane and church attendance low. Do you see a lack of charity groups? No. Do you see higher murder rates? No. Higher crime in general? Again no.

From here, it seems that in Australia less than 10% of the population regularly attend church services.

Yet I think our crime rate compares quite favorably to the US. From the homicide rates listed on wikipedia, I see that I am almost 4.5 times less likely to be murdered here than in the US.

People's compassion for others doesn't just turn off because they stop going to church or believing in a god. In fact my personal experience is that they become more tolerant and giving.

Cheers.
 
-Fran- said:
I would think that an atheist, knowing we only have this life, would want to do the best of it, and not destroy it by committing crimes.
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Yes, but a very good way to make the best of it is to have a lot of money. A quick way to get a lot of money (if your poor and uneducated) is to rob a bank. Sure you might get caught and ruin your life by going to jail, but that would be your only punishment. Theists would also have to worry about 2 punishments -- this life and the afterlife.
 
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A good way to get an indication of the answer to your question would be to look at countries which have high percentages of atheists, and then look at their crime rate.

Unfortunately for you DOC, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Japan, which have the highest proportion of Atheists in the world, have among the lowest crime rates in the world.

I am afraid the evidence does not support your hypothesis DOC.
 
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Everyone is born atheist.

Everyone is atheist about most of the thousands of imaginary beings/creatures.

I wonder at what age children respond to religious indoctrination?

I wonder at what age children "behave" from fear of eternal punishment?

Fear of eternal punishment hasn't stopped DOC regularly lying even though strictly discouraged by his sky-fairy's religion.

DOC suggests that being "poor and uneducated" leads to criminal behaviour.

Why is it that being "poor and uneducated" leads to greater religiosity?

Why is the % of the prison population over-represented by theists compared to the free population?

.
 
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DOC said:
Theists would also have to worry about 2 punishments -- this life and the afterlife.
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No, they don't.
Many 'theists' will confess their crime (in prison for example), turn to their god and ask for forgiveness. As I've experienced so far, the church will than always say they're forgiven.
Maybe they'll have to spend some time in purgatory (if their particular belief system has that), but they'll always be accepted into heaven. At least, that is what they believe.
 
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