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Identical Twins

zorro99

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zorro99
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Consider the extreme case of the "Jim twins." Identical twins Jim Lewis and Jim Springer were only four weeks old when they were separated; each infant was taken in by a different adoptive family.

The similarities the twins shared not only amazed one another, but researchers at the University of Minnesota as well. The very fact that you had twin siblings separated at birth bearing the same name, both 6 feet tall and weighing exactly 180 pounds is pretty incredible.

But there's more.

In her book Entwined Lives, Nancy Segal lists the following shared characteristics:

As youngsters, each Jim had a dog named "Toy."

Each Jim had been married two times -- the first wives were both called "Linda" and the second wives were both called "Betty."

One Jim had named his son "James Allan" and the other Jim had named his son "James Alan."

Each twin had driven his light-blue Chevrolet to Pas Grille beach in Florida for family vacations.

Both Jims smoked Salem cigarettes and drank Miller Lite beer.

Both Jims had at one time held part-time posts as sheriffs.

Both were fingernail biters and suffered from migraine headaches.

Each Jim enjoyed leaving love notes to his wife throughout the house.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/twin1.htm
 
The Mysteries of
Twins
(Page Two)
The Washington Post
Sunday, January 11, 1998

For behavior geneticists like Eaves, who do the nitty-gritty work in the nature-nurture debate, twins are the perfect people on whom to test hypotheses about what is molded by life's pressures and what is inborn. But such scientists wage the battle from a distance, using statistics to describe the behavior of populations -- of aggregates, in other words -- rather than individuals.

These statistics have shown that on average, identical twins tend to be around 80 percent the same in everything from stature to health to IQ to political views. The similarities are partly the product of similar upbringing. But evidence from the comparison of twins raised apart points rather convincingly to genes as the source of a lot of that likeness. In the most widely publicized study of this type, launched in 1979, University of Minnesota psychologist Thomas Bouchard and his colleagues have chronicled the fates of about 60 pairs of identical twins raised separately. Some of the pairs had scarcely met before Bouchard contacted them, and yet the behaviors and personalities and social attitudes they displayed in lengthy batteries of tests were often remarkably alike.

Equally astounding was another set of twins, Oskar Stohr and Jack Yufe. At first, they appeared to be a textbook case of the primacy of culture in forming individuals -- just the opposite of the Lewis-Springer pair. Separated from his twin six months after their birth in Trinidad, Oskar was brought up Catholic in Germany and joined the Hitler Youth. Jack stayed behind in the Caribbean, was raised a Jew and lived for a time in Israel. Yet despite the stark contrast of their lives, when the twins were reunited in their fifth decade they had similar speech and thought patterns, similar gaits, a taste for spicy foods and common peculiarities such as flushing the toilet before they used it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/twins/twins2.htm
 
Ginny & Gracie

Ginny and Gracie Go to School

For more than two years the chirpy little girls discussing potato salad so incomprehensibly in a language clinic at San Diego's Children's Hospital have been among the world's most celebrated twins. They have been tested and videotaped, charted phonetically, featured on television and offered contracts for the film rights to their curious story. Grace and Virginia Kennedy are now nine. The excitable, blue-eyed sisters called each other Poto and Cabengo, and sometimes Madame and Milady. For a while they were thought to be retarded. But at the same time they seemed to be speaking an original language. At the very least their exchanges were thought to represent the most developed form of idioglossia ever recorded in medical history.

Idioglossia is a phenomenon, badly documented at best, in which two individuals, often twins, develop a unique and private language with highly original vocabulary and syntax. It is commonly confused with a subcategory, "twin speech," a private collection of distorted words and idioms used by 40% of twins because they feel lonely or playful or both. Twins usually give it up at age three. But Gracie and Ginny were discovered at six, still unable to speak English. They had an apparent vocabulary of hundreds of exotic words stuck together in Rube Goldberg sentence structures and salted with strange half-English and half-German phrases. The preposition out became an active verb: "I out the pudatoo-ta" (I throw out the potato salad). Potato could be said in 30 different ways. Linguists, speech pathologists and educators hoped the twins' private communication would offer a rare window into the mysteries of developing language: How is it balanced between genetically programmed neurological functions and environmental stimuli?

The twins arrived at the San Diego hospital in 1977 after proving too bright for schooling designed for the mentally retarded. Shy and uncommunicative when first tested at the language clinic, the two little girls would rush into the hallway to compare notes after each session. Their talk, Clinic Director Chris Hagen told TIME Correspondent James Willworth, sounded "as if a tape recorder were turned on fast forward with an occasional understandable word jumping out."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912582-1,00.html

These are some rather freaky yet well-documented anecdotes about identical twins.

Anyone want to take a stab at debunking these?
 
There's this.

When I read about the Minnesota Studies originally, in the 1970s, it talked about twins meeting for the first time, wearing the same outfits. Well, that actually makes sense. If the outfit looks good on one twin, it'll look good on the other. You choose to wear what looks good on you.

And there's this
Despite current belief, this is not a rare phenomenon.
Click to expand...
.

When I go back to work, I believe there're some articles that might speak to all this.
 
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I have that book - it's wonderful, well-researched and scholarly. :)
 
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In "Examining Psychic Phenomena", Professor Allen Stewart Konigsberg describes the case of the separated twins, who, when the twin in Chicago took a shower, the one in NY got clean.
 
While I know that twinsie magical spooky elf mythology is a favorite and many even otherwise sane people adore it, as an identical twin who leads a relatively normal life it seems as ludicrous as any other confirmation bias/ biased selection problem (so forgive me while I mildly rant-- I need to express this sometimes).

The Jims case is a single case of some very wild coincidences (which I would really want documented exceedingly well before buying it-- the Blue Chevys and beach is Florida sounds like crap). Lets talk about the kabillions of sets of twins without such coincidences. Some of those coincidences, additionally, are pretty weak ("You like spicy food? OMG, I do too!" [and the third, unrelated person in the room says, "but. . . so do I. . ."]). I mean, two men in the 1970s midwest and they both drink Miller? No way! (and the third guy in the room. . .)

I mean, clearly genetics plays a role (especially in things like physical characteristics and related issues-- measurements, gait, migraines and other illnesses). People with near-identical genetics being close in size and weight? Well, knock me over with a feather. Heh, "OMG, that's *my* birthday too! And we're twins! And you look like me! Squeal! You hate playing basketball, too? Well, I guess we *are* both 5' 2" men. . . Wait, you used to watch Seinfeld, too?!"

So on the one hand, twin-study coincidences. On the other hand, twinsie woo. Secret twin language is a crock (any two kids of the same age living together would likely have parallel babbling). Shared thoughts? Give me a break. twin telepathy accounts are as bad as anyone else's. I grew up expecting to experience it and never did. I felt terrible, for example, when my sister horribly broke her leg in several painful bits and I had no frigging inkling of anything until she came home many hours later.

If I reported, however, "You know, around 11 AM I had this feeling that something TERRIBLE had happened!" even many people who think that regular ESP is a crock would have eaten it up. Some twins seem to get a kick out the attention and possibly mislead themselves into believing some of this borderline paranormal crap and feed the problem (hence any study made after the Jims had known each other longer than a day is very suspect in my mind. I suspect there are rogue twins out there perpetuating this sort of thing for the LULZ or innocently buying it all themselves and bending their own perceptions.

(At one point my sister and I collectively rolled our eyes at this whole thing, and from that point on whenever anyone asks us, "Are you guys, like, psychic?" we go into a standard routine. "Huh, I dunno. Never thought about it. Hey, what number do you think I'm thinking of?. . ." "Uh. . . 127?" "Oh my God, thats exactly right! Now you try!" ad nauseum, until the asker realizes that he or she is a MORON!)

So aside from the obviously undeniable coincidences which really *aren't* coincidences but rather have genetic cause, the rest of it should be held in the same light as any other alleged coincidences (law of very large numbers, etc) or any other alleged paranormal phenomena. Don't suspend skepticism in this case.

Ah, I feel better now.
 
I thought this was going to be a parody/joke at first. You know, they both grew up to 6foot, 180lbs. Wow, stunning that a pair of identical twins would grow up to the same dimensions. Both were named Jim (which was, for a long time, an extremely common name), both had a toy named "toy". BRUTAL!

But I see this is serious. Interesting.

But I agree with Spung. There are far too many other twins that do not share these types of coincidences. If this was such a real, strong phenomenon, it would be much more widespread.
 
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Man Spung and Whiplash beat me to it. Dang

I used to think this was the coolest thing, twins separated at birth and have so much in common, then I became an adult and stated thinking about this seriously.

I remember reading about a pair of twins that had a long list of "likeness" I remember that they said that they would each wear a rubber band on their wrists. Wow, and they both liked the same color, Blue. I used to also wear a rubber band on my wrist at times, for handy reasons.

Once you start looking at these odd things they have in common, you also have to look at what other people who are the same gender and age also share with these twins.

When you are looking to have something in common with someone if you talk long enough you Will find Many things in common, esp if you are reaching for it and really trying to find common ground. I mean if my twin said her favorite music group is Queen, well if I want to be agreeable, I might say "I love Queen too" thats a hit! But actually I love Queen and about 50 other music groups, so how likely is it that we really had a true hit (considering we are the same age, and Queen is a very popular group)

I worked for a few months in a hotel, my job was to help people socialize with each other during the wine and cheese hour. I would introduce people to each other, mentioning where they are from and what they are visiting Monterey for. It was so weird, people would find others that had lived in the same cities, knew the neighborhoods of their families and maybe even knew teachers from schools, and this was across the country. We used to have lots of people who were celebrating their birthdays in the hotel, so we often found people with the same birthday (go figure), if you were really trying for a hit you could also include "tomorrow is my birthday, yesterday was my birthday ect..." as hits, cause they are "almost" on the same day.

To really do very good research in this "twinness" you would have to make sure there is no contact between twins before the survey is done. You would have to have questions in advance, (what is your first wife's name), (what is your occupation) (what is your college degree in) and then you would also have to ask people the same gender and same age that are not related to the twins. You would have to throw out any questions that could be genetic.

Anyway, when I was young I loved to read about this stuff, now I just find it silly that an adult would take it seriously. If you are trying to find a bond with your long lost twin and you don't have anything to talk about when you first meet, then maybe this might break the ice and help you to get to know each other better otherwise it is just silly.

Susan
 
Lends credence to the theory of natural selection it seems.
Identical genes do identical things.
They both would fail to reproduce in identical situations.
How unusual would it be if they both appeared in hospitals with an uncommon disease?
There may only be certain hospitals that specialised in that.
What about a skiing coincidence?
Both had the same genetic material that gave an advantage in, say, calf muscles that propelled both to olympic fame.
Is that unusual?
It seems easy to coorelate after the fact.
 
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Hey Spung,

you're right about there being lots of "woo" in the field of twin research. The book mentioned in the OP, "Entwined Lives", isn't one. It's a properly researched, scholarly academic text with no "woo" content at all.

Worth a read, seriously. The Jims anecdote is really just an interesting story and not part of the main thrust of the book's arguments.
 
sgf8 said:
I worked for a few months in a hotel, my job was to help people socialize with each other during the wine and cheese hour. I would introduce people to each other, mentioning where they are from and what they are visiting Monterey for. It was so weird, people would find others that had lived in the same cities, knew the neighborhoods of their families and maybe even knew teachers from schools, and this was across the country. We used to have lots of people who were celebrating their birthdays in the hotel, so we often found people with the same birthday (go figure), if you were really trying for a hit you could also include "tomorrow is my birthday, yesterday was my birthday ect..." as hits, cause they are "almost" on the same day.

Susan
Click to expand...

IIRC, you need 22 people for the odds of a shared birthday in the group to hit evens; so it's not really surprising that you'd get it happening quite often with big groups.
 
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Okay, how about this case:

These two were raised within 30 miles of each other.
They both had a Nintendo while growing up, and their favorite game was The Legend of Zelda.
They both have always loved video games.
They both love Japanese food, and Japanese Culture. Their particular favorite food is shogayaki.
Despite not knowing each other, both came to love Japanese Animation, and in fact, this was what brought them together.
They also share many of the same tastes in movies, anime, books, and manga.
One was an atheist their whole life, while the other soon came to atheism after becoming an adult.
They were both fans of The Simpsons and watched new episodes religiously every week, and they even remember that the Simpsons used to be shown on Thursdays.
They've both caused exactly one car accident, and they were each the same: they rear-ended someone who was turning right, assuming that the person had seen the opening in traffic and had taken it.
After they had met, one's best friend commented cryptically, "did you clone yourself?" because he thought the two were so similar.
While they knew each other, one's cordless phone battery died, but the answering system still worked, while the other's cordless phone worked, but the answering system died.
Both have no desire to have children.
They both drive cars!

Who are these people? What twins were separated at birth?

Me and my husband.

No, we're not twins, lol. It's all confirmation bias, and we grew up in the same era, and area. I wonder how many differences people aren't reporting about these twins.
 
When I was growing up, several people asked if my identical twin and I shared a special connection. Other than the same connection I felt with the rest of my family, I did not have the slightest idea what they were talking about.

As adults we have much in common, but we are individuals with more differences than anything in common. Our personalities and interests are the biggest thing that separate us.

Ranb
 

Howstuffworks "How Twins Work"
Of course, before you start thinking about science fiction movies with pod people, the Jims, like other identical twins, are not carbon copies of each other. Some obvious differences were discovered during their participation in the "Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart," including:

  • Each styled his hair differently; one Jim wore it combed straight, hanging down over his forehead (think Beatles circa 1961) and the other Jim wore it combed back and sported sideburns (think Johnny Cash circa 1957, but with longer 'burns).

  • One Jim more clearly conveyed himself through speech, while the other was better suited to writing.

  • While both Jims had been married twice, one Jim had taken vows with a third wife (called "Sandy")
Click to expand...
 
Spung said:
The Jims case is a single case of some very wild coincidences (which I would really want documented exceedingly well before buying it
Click to expand...

Weren't they also already reconnected for years before partaking in the study? That would muddle any and all coincidences, confirmation bias and anecdotes heavily.
 
I can't recall the name of the study but every year since birth I've filled out a questionaire about my twins and they answer about 100 questions on the phone. They are 17 now so it's been going on a long time. They only do it because they get 20 bucks each after the call. What I can't believe is the number of people who ask me if I have identical twins and I tell them, no, they are boy/girl and boy/girl twins are never identical and they reply boy/girl twins most certainly can be identical. After 17 years I don't bother with trying to explain anymore.
 
Dorothy Lowe and Bridget Harrison

Unexplained Parallels

Connections are also found between identical twins who have been separated at birth. Dorothy Lowe and Bridget Harrison were separated in 1945, and did not meet until 1979, when they were flown over from Britain for an investigation by a psychologist at the University of Minnesota. (8 answer to met, 34) They found that when they met they were both wearing seven rings on their hands, two bracelets on one wrist, a watch and a bracelet on the other. They married on the same day, had worn identical wedding dresses and carried the same flowers. Dorothy had named her son Richard Andrew and her daughter Catherine Louise; Bridget had named her son Andrew Richard and her daughter Karen Louise. (10处 similar answer this unless they themselves do not necessarily, children) In fact, she had wanted to call her Catherine. Both had a cat called Tiger. They also had a string of similar mannerisms when they were nervous.

Դ风也吹不起 http://donotdot.cn/ , ԭĵַhttp://donotdot.cn/post/90.htm

There's a study of this case here but not being a subscriber I can't read it:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/207/4437/1323.pdf?ck=nck
 
Starthinker said:
I can't recall the name of the study but every year since birth I've filled out a questionaire about my twins and they answer about 100 questions on the phone. They are 17 now so it's been going on a long time. They only do it because they get 20 bucks each after the call. What I can't believe is the number of people who ask me if I have identical twins and I tell them, no, they are boy/girl and boy/girl twins are never identical and they reply boy/girl twins most certainly can be identical. After 17 years I don't bother with trying to explain anymore.
Click to expand...

:roll:
 
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