Merged Icebear's Evolution Thread

[Shiner]

Clearly, after this many mutations, the fruit flies should have developed the ability to shoot lasers from their eyes, control the weather, and teleport. Some of them should have a 'healing factor' or super-speed.

Naturally, these mutant fruit flies should join together to form superhero teams and defend the world against the machinations of evil mutant fruit flies that want to exterminate the non-mutant fruit flies.

Since none of this happened... evolution = false.

Not so fast ....

 

[MikeG]

The fruit fly experiments in the early decades of the 1900s should have been the end of it.......

Any chance of a link to the actual papers, rather than to some creationist website's homespun version of the results?

 

[arthwollipot]

Clearly, after this many mutations, the fruit flies should have developed the ability to shoot lasers from their eyes, control the weather, and teleport. Some of them should have a 'healing factor' or super-speed.

Naturally, these mutant fruit flies should join together to form superhero teams and defend the world against the machinations of evil mutant fruit flies that want to exterminate the non-mutant fruit flies.

Since none of this happened... evolution = false.

Actually, that's not how the argument usually goes.

Fruit flies that shoot lasers, control the weather and teleport are still fruit flies. For evolution to be true, fruit flies would have to evolve into porcupines, or petunias, or people.

 

[Mojo]

The fruit fly experiments in the early decades of the 1900s should have been the end of it. Fruit flies breed new generations every other day so that running any sort of a decades-long experiment with fruit flies will involve more generations of them than there have ever been of anything even remotely resembling humans on our planet. Those flies were subjected to everything in the world known to cause mutations and the mutants were recombined every possible way; all they ever got were sterile freaks, and fruit flies. The results were unambiguous. Several prominent scientists publicly denounced evolution at that point in time including the famous case of Richard Goldschmidt.

The failure was due to the fact that our entire living world is driven by information and the only information there ever was in the picture was that for a fruit fly. When the DNA/RNA information scheme was discovered, even if the fruit fly thing had never happened, evolution should have been discarded on the spot. But GIVEN the fact of the fruit fly experiments, somebody HAD to have thought to himself "Hey, THAT'S THE REASON THE FRUIT FLY EXPERIMENTS FAILED!!!!!!"

Apart from a failure to understand either the theory of evolution you are attacking or the experiments you are using to attack it, what do you have?

 

[Ladewig]

People here are truth-averse. They'll just invent some other fiction, quote wikipedia, and/or call you a "parody character." What cheeses me off is they have the gall to believe we "evolved" from microbes, yet it's "ridiculous" to believe that a virgin gave birth, or that bread fell from heaven, or that Adam lived to be 900 years old, or that a talking serpent tricked Eve into eating the magic fruit.

Actually, I am far, far less concerned with whether or not those things are ridiculous as I a concerned with the ridiculousness of worshiping a Being as petulant, as jealous, as capricious, as bloodthirsty, as sexist, as unfair, and as unjust as the God of the Bible.

ETA and post #5 did none of the things you described yet it was able to show that the entire OP was based on a false premise.

 

[Shiner]

Any chance of a link to the actual papers, rather than to some creationist website's homespun version of the results?

I'd say no. But I don't think you're being fair.

The article quotes references. Nature, no less. Also, some other creationist website's homespun versions of the results.
The author is a Science writer!!11!!



It's like real science, but without the reality.

 

[Reivax]

The fruit fly experiments in the early decades of the 1900s should have been the end of it. Fruit flies breed new generations every other day so that running any sort of a decades-long experiment with fruit flies will involve more generations of them than there have ever been of anything even remotely resembling humans on our planet. Those flies were subjected to everything in the world known to cause mutations and the mutants were recombined every possible way; all they ever got were sterile freaks, and fruit flies. The results were unambiguous. Several prominent scientists publicly denounced evolution at that point in time including the famous case of Richard Goldschmidt.

What if I told you that random mutation is only one part of evolution? There is a reason why many bacteria and insects have essentially remained the same since the beginning, because they are fit for their environment - they don't need to change. What makes you think the mutations that arise are going to be beneficial to the fruit fly population in an environment that the fruit flies have most likely already adapted to?

 

[Multivac]

I have a simple question for you icebear: What on Earth are you talking about? Why would evolution be disproved by DNA?

ETA: sorry, that is two simple questions.

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

ATP is the currency of life, Cells use ATP for energy. Doesn't matter if its a Prokaryote or a Eukaryote they all use ATP for energy. But why? All ATP is, is a tri phosphate connected to a pentose sugar, connected to a purine base. In the case of ATP the purine base is adenine. Since the energy comes from the release of the third phosphate to make ADP. And the phosphate has no interation to the adenine (because its connected to the pentose), Why do all cells use ATP? Why not GTP (Guanine TriPhosphate) it would work just as well. It could release the energy that ATP does. After all we are simply getting the energy from releasing the third phosphate in the chain.

The answer is because long ago, before Prokaryote and Eukaryote cells branched off, a selection occured that worked. Because it worked so well, there was no need to change it to something that worked just as well. Therefore all cells evolved to use ATP.

Evolution Proven.

 

[John Jones]

The fruit fly experiments in the early decades of the 1900s should have been the end of it. Fruit flies breed new generations every other day so that running any sort of a decades-long experiment with fruit flies will involve more generations of them than there have ever been of anything even remotely resembling humans on our planet. Those flies were subjected to everything in the world known to cause mutations and the mutants were recombined every possible way; all they ever got were sterile freaks, and fruit flies. The results were unambiguous. Several prominent scientists publicly denounced evolution at that point in time including the famous case of Richard Goldschmidt.

The failure was due to the fact that our entire living world is driven by information and the only information there ever was in the picture was that for a fruit fly. When the DNA/RNA information scheme was discovered, even if the fruit fly thing had never happened, evolution should have been discarded on the spot. But GIVEN the fact of the fruit fly experiments, somebody HAD to have thought to himself "Hey, THAT'S THE REASON THE FRUIT FLY EXPERIMENTS FAILED!!!!!!"

In other words, there is no way in the world anybody should be believing in evolution 40 years after the discovery of DNA.

Evolution is an ideological doctrine masquerading as a science theory.

Three words: Ha ha ha!

 

[catsmate]

The fruit fly experiments in the early decades of the 1900s should have been the end of it.

The end of what?

Fruit flies breed new generations every other day <snip>

No. You are, as usual, completely wrong.

Female fruit flies are capable of laying hundreds of eggs within their brief life spans. Eggs are most commonly laid on moist, fermenting food masses such as overripe fruit and vegetables. Within 24 to 30 hours, fruit fly eggs hatch into larvae known as maggots. These maggots feed on the fruits within which they were laid.
Within one week, maggots burrow through the decaying matter and molt. After five to six days, larvae move to a dry surface and transform into pupae. A few days later, adult fruit flies emerge. Fruit flies become sexually active within two days of emerging as adults. Female fruit flies may mate with several males and store sperm for future use.

Those flies were subjected to everything in the world known to cause mutations and the mutants were recombined every possible way; all they ever got were sterile freaks, and fruit flies.

Also untrue.

The results were unambiguous. Several prominent scientists publicly denounced evolution at that point in time including the famous case of Richard Goldschmidt.

None of which alters the fundamental truth of evolution, despite the lying and whining of god botherers.

The failure was due to the fact that our entire living world is driven by information and the only information there ever was in the picture was that for a fruit fly.

You are, again, wrong.

When the DNA/RNA information scheme was discovered, even if the fruit fly thing had never happened, evolution should have been discarded on the spot. But GIVEN the fact of the fruit fly experiments, somebody HAD to have thought to himself "Hey, THAT'S THE REASON THE FRUIT FLY EXPERIMENTS FAILED!!!!!!"

Law of Exclamation. You lose.

In other words, there is no way in the world anybody should be believing in evolution 40 years after the discovery of DNA.

Except of course people who aren't blinded by strawman arguments, lies and distortions.

Evolution is an ideological doctrine masquerading as a science theory.

Nope.

http://www.icr.org/article/5532/

Scopie's Law. You fail.

 

[Pup]

Actually, that's not how the argument usually goes.

Fruit flies that shoot lasers, control the weather and teleport are still fruit flies. For evolution to be true, fruit flies would have to evolve into porcupines, or petunias, or people.

Wait a minute. How carefully did they check the ID of all the scientists leaving the building? Did they make sure no more people left than entered?

There could be former fruit flies or their descendants walking among us today, appearing superficially to be people.

That explains so much.

 

[catsmate]

Wait a minute. How carefully did they check the ID of all the scientists leaving the building? Did they make sure no more people left than entered?

There could be former fruit flies or their descendants walking among us today, appearing superficially to be people.

That explains so much.

Actually I remember a SF short story that had a similar premise, thought it was ants rather than fruit flies.

 

[Puppycow]

Evolution is an ideological doctrine masquerading as a science theory.

Care to explain drug-resistant bacteria?

Also, found this:

http://www.hartnell.cc.ca.us/faculty/jhodin/superfly.htm

 

[IamFreeCanIGo]

Also because AIDS is a RNA virus, that means when it replicates itself in our cells, there is a lot of mutations (because RNA isn't as reliable of copying itself as DNA) This constant mutation makes it very hard to create a cure.

 

[marplots]

Some kindness please. 98 posts is too few for Icebear to have evolved. Give a poster at least 3,000 would you?

 

[Puppycow]

No. You are, as usual, completely wrong.

So at a minimum, the entire life cycle from one generation of eggs to the next generation of eggs is at least 10 days, and usually more.

http://www.fruitflies.org/the-fruit-fly-life-cycle/

2 days is only the time it takes for an adult to become sexually active, but it takes about 8-10 days under optimum conditions for an egg to become an adult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophila_melanogaster

It has a short generation time (about 10 days at room temperature) so several generations can be studied within a few weeks.

In 100 years, you could get about 3650 generations. In 10 years, only 365.

 

[fuelair]

Any chance of a link to the actual papers, rather than to some creationist website's homespun version of the results?

Thee jesteth forsooth!!!

 

[Ladewig]

Mr. Icebear, did you want to return to the thread you started and respond to the criticisms of your assertions?

On this board, it is OK to admit that one was mistaken. In fact, such an admission often garners some respect.

 

[arthwollipot]

Thee jesteth forsooth!!!

Thou jesteth.