I now accept waterboarding

Elind said:
Where were you in my earlier thread on the same subject, more or less? Just because you picked a marginally more controversial title you get so many more indignant opinions than I!! Not fair.:(

The common, contrary, theme seems to be that all humans have rights and to violate them diminishes our selves more than any possible benefit, under any circumstance, is ever, possibly, never conceivably, not under my watch, legally speaking, worth more than my rights or that of my children.

Of course we appreciate that some people think that known (without question) genocidal mass murderers have a right to privacy regarding the information held in their little minds.

The unpleasantness, of anything some call torture, is a matter of personal choice is it not? All that is needed is full, verifiable, and trickily tested answers to simple painless questioning and requests for information.

The weak at heart may take comfort that such matters need not be expected to be applied randomly or without exceptional cause, and should be monitored to ensure the same, but the same bleeding hearts may also take comfort that some people are prepared to protect them in ways they are not able to do for themselves, as has always been the story of human history.
Click to expand...
What the hell is this? What are you - a POLITICIAN?

I think you feel guilty being in favor of torture, so you are surrounding your statements with all manner of crapola to shroud them in obscurity.

Just come right out and say that you favor torture in some circumstances, and be done with it. Just say that your needs outweigh those of the many. Cut the feeble attempts at philosophy.
 
Waterboarding is not simulated drowning, it IS drowning. It is drowning a person, but not so much that they will die, but they can and do pass out. They can and do inhale water. They can and do have to be resuscitated sometimes. It seems like the torture proponents want to convince people that drownings only count if they are fatal.
 
Elind said:
The weak at heart may take comfort that such matters need not be expected to be applied randomly or without exceptional cause, and should be monitored to ensure the same, but the same bleeding hearts may also take comfort that some people are prepared to protect them in ways they are not able to do for themselves, as has always been the story of human history.
Click to expand...

I have no confidence at all that 'such matters' would be applied without exceptional cause, or that data collected during monitoring wouldn't be erased when convenient.

I take no comfort in having some sadistic moron claim that his actions protect me in ways I am not able to do myself. I don't want or need this kind of protection.

Anybody here weak at heart enough to want this?? . . . . .
I didn't think so.

Mushroom clouds, chemical weapons, fight them there instead of here - just another attempt to pander to the vision of 'Americans are such stupid chicken$hi+s' favored by the fear mongers.
 
Last edited:
What is the best result that government endorsed US torture has produced so far? Considering all the heat the president is taking on this subject, it would make no sense to announce a foiled terrorist plot without crediting torture, if it was indeed used.

So, what's the best example so far?
 
Elind said:
You know, for a pretend philosopher, that is a pretty disgusting attitude, aside from it's basic ignorance, to hold. You disappoint me greatly, particularly given that you have a status supposedly due a certain amount of respect on this forum.
Click to expand...
Do you understand that I'm saying that both the 9/11 attack and the second Iraq War were both tangentially provoked?
 
Elind said:
You know, for a pretend philosopher, that is a pretty disgusting attitude, aside from it's basic ignorance, to hold. You disappoint me greatly, particularly given that you have a status supposedly due a certain amount of respect on this forum. You have lost mine. Go have a beer with with the Doc.
Click to expand...

Yep between their working intimately with al qaeda and selling them WMD's it was all kinds of provoked.

Oh wait you are going for the crimes against humanity that they commited when Rummy and Cheney where working with them?
 
Torture center found in northern Iraq

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Somehow I doubt waterboarding was part of the repertoire.

"We discovered several (weapons) caches, a torture facility that had chains, a bed — an iron bed that was still connected to a battery — knives and swords that were still covered in blood as we went in to go after the terrorists in that area,"
Click to expand...

Not saying that moral nations should use waterboarding as a technique, but lets not convolute terms.
 
Jensen said:
What is the best result that government endorsed US torture has produced so far? Considering all the heat the president is taking on this subject, it would make no sense to announce a foiled terrorist plot without crediting torture, if it was indeed used.

So, what's the best example so far?
Click to expand...


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/

Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'Story Highlights
John Kiriakou says he questioned al Qaeda suspect but didn't waterboard him

Abu Zubayda reportedly said after waterboarding that Allah told him to talk

Kiriakou: Suspect gave up information on al Qaeda, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
No mention of any specific terrorist attack that was prevented in the article. It does however state that:

The CIA was unaware of Mohammed's stature before the Abu Zubayda interrogation, the former agent said.

"Abu Zubayda's the one who told us that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was so important in the al Qaeda structure, and we didn't realize at the time how important he was," Kiriakou said.

Abu Zubayda also divulged information on "al Qaeda's leadership structure and mentioned people who we really didn't have any familiarization with [and] told us who we should be thinking about, who we should be looking at, and who was important in the organization so we were able to focus our investigation this way," Kiriakou said.
Click to expand...

So, should these people, who were not suspects before he started talking under torture, now be tortured as well. Then they will perhaps mention even more people who the CIA can then torture.

Perhaps its time to ask Fidel if the USA can rent some more Cuban teritory...
 
thaiboxerken said:
Waterboarding is not simulated drowning, it IS drowning. It is drowning a person, but not so much that they will die, but they can and do pass out. They can and do inhale water. They can and do have to be resuscitated sometimes. It seems like the torture proponents want to convince people that drownings only count if they are fatal.
Click to expand...

What you said. It's "simulated drowning" the way tasering is "pretend electrocution"; it's the same thing.

The experience is exactly the same and so is the pain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom