I just gave a speech...

[Jagged Blossom]

If you've ever been to www.quackwatch.org, a website run by a Dr.Stephen Barret, he has a number of articles on "the power of coincidence" including peices on why people think alternative therapies work for them...even when they don't. I highly recommend you go to that website and just read what the good doctor has to say on the issue.

Aww, thanks for responding so respectfully. I am a little apprehensive about posting but really am thankful for the gracious welcome.

I will definitely check out the website. I totally agree that there is a great deal of bunk floating around out there concerning alternative treatments.

I think where we differ is our definition of alternative treatments. I consider an alternative treatment to be anything shifting from traditional western medicine to a more naturalistic approach to healing the body. This could include yoga, accupuncture, meditation, etc.

I don't buy into any of the freaky homeopathic stuff nor do I put any additional supplements into my body. I don't necessarily think ANYONE else has the power to heal my body but only information I can use to get things working correctly again.

Yes, doctors are trained to recognize ailments most people have never heard of outside of dialogue on "ER." However, this day in age, aside from conditions that require immediate treatment, patients have access to information that,if they were to educate themselves, could at least arm them against misdiagnosis once they do seek traditional medical advice.

I guess I let a little bit too much emotion seep into my post. It's a highly sensitive topic for me. I only meant to convey that I believe to be truly skeptical means to be skeptical of the things traditionally accepted as well as the new things on the horizon. Anyone can question the minority...but to have the strength to stand up against something as powerful as western medicine, and confront it with as much independent research as one can, surely cannot be a bad thing.

While I haven't read the articles yet, I would base my opinion on why alternative therapies work on the fact that people like to think they are in control of things. Having faith in anything automatically makes it powerful to the individual. Somatic responses to psychological processes are commonplace.

I will NEVER turn my back on western medicine but I will always keep one ear open to alternative therapies. I believe there is something to be learned from EVERYTHING including the crap theories. Isn't the process of science based on disproving things rather than proving? So isn't through understanding the failures that we learn?

Thanks again for letting me express my opinion. I don't intend to change anyone else's. This is just my experience after 8 years of dealing with western medicine. I just don't intend to turn my life/health over, 100%, to anyone but myself. Questioning my doctors has saved me more than once.

Oh yes, I am not trying to say that all doctors who make diagnosis are incompetent. That's far from the truth. They are merely overworked and consumed by patients with life threatening problems. So naturally, the smaller things will get less attention.

My misdiagnoses, thankfully, were never things that could have placed my immediate health in danger. They were annoyances. Most recently, a rheumatologist who confused ulnar nerve damage with carpal tunnel. Something so seemingly simple that a freshman anatomy student could have made the call. I didn't even bother to call her out on it once I found out and when I return on May 25th, I might mention to her in passing that the numbness has continued to give her a second chance @ diagnosis. For me, two strikes and you are out though!

Really, I don't hate doctors! he he he

 

[Hunter]

Well Jagged, I am impressed by your open mindedness (something absolutely essential for anyone as far I am concerned.)

Your also absolutely right when you talked about people's belief in certain "alternative therapies"

"Having faith in anything automatically makes it powerful to the individual. Somatic responses to psychological processes are commonplace. " - is what you said.

Just a point of note however, while psychosomatic responses do occur, the problem is that such responses rarely if ever are enough to deal with some of the more serious problems(i.e. cancer). And don't forget that alot of folks can and do forego real treatment after thinking that their condition has been cured...much to their detriment.

One more thing before I go: Sometimes people think that someone like myself has a rabidly pro-allopathic stance, ignoring all other proffered treatments.
Believe me, that is certainly not the case. My criteria is very simple: "does it work?".

However, in all my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience and research, I have never seen items like yoga, acupuncture or reikei display any results beyond what could be attributed to the so called placebo effect.

Now don't get me wrong, if such things could be shown to work, I would be the first one in line to sign up. I used to be quite the yoga/occult buff when I was younger.

Anyhoo, I've taken way too much space already. Once again, welcome to the forums. Keep your open mind open and your posts as well written as they have been so far. Good luck! (though I don't think you'll need it) and take care!

 

[RichardR]

if a good deal of our medicines are ultimately taken/initially discvered in/from plants why we can't just use "natural" cures.

(1)Because you don't know which ones work and which ones don't. Pretty important, I would have thought.

(2)Because the "natural" cures (even if they work), often contain something else which is harmful. In 1800's people ate willow bark to stop toothache. The problem was, it upset the stomach due to the high cellulose levels in the bark. It was an innovation to think that the willow bark must contain something that did the 'pain-relieving' work.

In the early 1900's the synthetic chemicals firm Bayer reduced willow bark down to its key chemicals, found that salicylic acid helped against pain, and tried to distill it. They found shortly before WW1 that it was easier to manufacture the substance through chemical synthesis.

That is why we now have Aspirin.

Saying we must use "natural" medicines is like going back to willow bark, claiming it is natural, therefore better. Never mind the fact that 99% of it does nothing (except make you sick), and the one percent that does something can be bought in tablets.

Of course, if the natural product has been shown by scientific testing to (1)work and (2)have no significant side effects, then there is no reason not to use it.

 

[jj]

(Rueful chuckle) Just wait.

Yes, indeedy. Getting old sucks, doesn't it, until you consider the alternative...

 

[jj]

He has wholeheartedly embraced "the religion of his celtic anscestors".

I've no problem with the Guinness, Laphroig, and Craggenmore. What's more, I'm fine with some of that French stuff, too, like Bordeaux...

But I'll use the modern doctors, just like my celtic ancestors did.

 

[Jagged Blossom]

[My criteria is very simple: "does it work?".

However, in all my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience and research, I have never seen items like yoga, acupuncture or reikei display any results beyond what could be attributed to the so called placebo effect.

Now don't get me wrong, if such things could be shown to work, I would be the first one in line to sign up. I used to be quite the yoga/occult buff when I was younger.

[/B]

Thanks again for being so pleasant.

I have systemic lupus and am probable for multiple scleorosis. Both illnesses have strong physical symptoms including severe pain, burning, stiffness, etc.

Keeping mobile is a key issue for me...even at 25 years old...without being in top shape, walking up a flight of stairs can exhaust me physically.

The slow fluid movements of yoga allow my body to stretch itself at its own pace. I cannot tell you the immense difference in my physical abilities when I incorporate daily yoga as a form of exercise.

Would any stretching program work just as well?? Probably so. Would any exercise program work just as well? Probably not.

Yoga can't cure me, but it an essential ingredient to preventing stiffness, pain, etc and it can definitely delay the need for pain medications. It can help to treat a symptom just as ibuprofen could treat the same symptoms. However, I am trying to prevent them altogether...as much as I can and then help ease the pain when it does come. Western medicine is mostly about treating ailments...not preventing them.

It's just one part of a total healthy plan I need to stay on my toes though...it won't fix my kidneys, it won't fix the numbness in my hands, but it gives me a structure through which I can prepare my body for movement.

So when you ask does it work? Of course, it works. EVERYTHING works to do something...even if its only real purpose is to make some underhanded snake a few extra bucks...no offense to snakes.

The real question is...does it accomplish what the person utilizing that method is wishing to accomplish? Only that person can determine its success or failure.

Anyway, I am gonna stay out of this one for a while. I don't wanna just get depressed because I have to think about being sick. I am in a quite content state of denial about being so young and so ill. It's working nicely for me thank you.

Take care.

 

[Ed]

Aww, thanks for responding so respectfully. I am a little apprehensive about posting but really am thankful for the gracious welcome.

That's because you do not run about in tight little circles yelling "woowoowoowoowoo" at the top of your lungs.

Welcome.

Saddam, Dick Chaney, Osma, and Omar, the mysterious one-eyed mullah, all send their regards.

 

[Aerich]

Yoga can't cure me, but it an essential ingredient to preventing stiffness, pain, etc and it can definitely delay the need for pain medications. It can help to treat a symptom just as ibuprofen could treat the same symptoms. However, I am trying to prevent them altogether...as much as I can and then help ease the pain when it does come. Western medicine is mostly about treating ailments...not preventing them.

How do you come to that conclusion? Western medicine is tops at prevention. Vaccines. Cancer screening, to catch it early when treatments are vastly more effective (and no 'alternative' treatment is worth a darn when it comes to cancer, I might add). Studies to try to identify the causes of cancer so you can follow guidelines and reduce your chances of getting it in the first place. The same for heart disease. So on and so forth.

What you're doing with yoga is a form of mild physical therapy. No Western doctor would have a problem with that.

In another post you said:

I consider an alternative treatment to be anything shifting from traditional western medicine to a more naturalistic approach to healing the body. This could include yoga, accupuncture, meditation, etc.

Hmmm. Are you willing to question your assumptions here? What precisely is more 'naturalistic' about the 'alternative' methods, i.e. in what way are they more closely related to nature than Western medicine, which is by definition based on a system of formal study of nature?

For that matter, why is it that you identify Western medicine as 'traditional'? It wasn't until very recent times (the past 200 years or so) that it existed in any form we'd recognize. It is far younger than the traditions behind most 'alternative' therapies. Western medicine is the new kid on the block, and he's been kicking ass and taking names in much the same way that science in general has pushed aside old ideas such as alchemy.

Anyway, I am gonna stay out of this one for a while. I don't wanna just get depressed because I have to think about being sick. I am in a quite content state of denial about being so young and so ill. It's working nicely for me thank you.

I know what you mean, having faced potential blindness when I was about 26 or 27. You're not supposed to have spontaneous retinal detachments at that age. Fortunately it was just one eye -- detachment usually comes in pairs -- and they were able to stabilize it, though the surgery was not without long term consequences. Didn't have a lot of time to indulge in the denial, because they wanted to operate right away, but it was definitely there.

Anyways, I sincerely wish you luck with your health. You've got some rough long term stuff to deal with.