I just gave a speech...

[Hunter]

Hi folks, I gave a speech today in my presentational speaking class on alternative medicine/therapy. This was the last of a series of speeches I had given on the topic and after it was over it was time for some Q&A.

Something very frightening happened.

I was asked a couple questions, and then one guy spoke up. He asked that if a good deal of our medicines are ultimately taken/initially discvered in/from plants why we can't just use "natural" cures. I began to respond by first talking about how modern medical techniques can ensure both quality and quantity of the chemicals within certain plants in ways that simply munching on say..foxglove( for its digitalis) can never guarantee.

He suddenly interupted me when I mentioned quality control.NOTE: this is a paraphrase "Why should the companies worry about quality control ?
Thats the consumers job. I decide what my body needs not the companies, not the doctors.

Me: *stunned silence*.....wait, so you mean to tell me that *you* attempt to diagnose and treat every possible ailment (without any medical training) yourself?

Him: Yes. I haven't gone to the doctor since I was 16-17 years old.

This was promptly followed by many nods of agreement from other classmates.
_______________________________


P.S. I was wondering if its possible (and surely it must be) to transform media stored on a videotape (VHS format) into a digital version that I could upload to the web? I want to put my speech up for some feedback.

 

[Jas]

I think people like that should sign some sort of agreement saying that they will never ever use modern medicine or require hospitalization or the services of doctors. Frees up beds for the rest of us, as far as I'm concerned. And no whining allowed when they develop cancer, or ALS or whatever other horrible disease you can think of.

How old was the person in question who hadn't seen a doctor since they were 16-17 anyway?

 

[Hunter]

The person in question is about 23-25 years old

 

[Ed]

The person in question is about 23-25 years old

(Rueful chuckle) Just wait.

 

[Hunter]

Well you see, the problem is, this guy is an otherwise very bright fella. He's concerned about many social issues, does a lot of volunteer work...and is a devout ..erm...pagan...Which I unfortunately consider as having a negative impact on his thinking. He has wholeheartedly embraced "the religion of his celtic anscestors".

Nonetheless, the fact remains that I don't want to see someone as bright as him suffer because of such...demonstrably foolish beliefs.

Everyone has to get medical treatment sooner or later.... and I don't enjoy thinking that if he develops say...cancer or diabetes that he's going to try and treat it by heading to his local health food store and munching on leaves.

 

[SquishyDave]

Everyone has to get medical treatment sooner or later.... and I don't enjoy thinking that if he develops say...cancer or diabetes that he's going to try and treat it by heading to his local health food store and munching on leaves.

Don't sweat it, he almost certainly won't, most of the time these guys run straight to the doctor when something goes wrong. Very rarely do people conpletely forsake modern medicine, what will probably happen if he needs a doctor is he will get his medicine from an MD, and then also munch on some leaves as well.

 

[specious_reasons]

The person in question is about 23-25 years old

I visted the doctor maybe 6-7 times between high school and age 27 or so. Most of those were in response to an injury.

I get the impression (from my MD wife) this is fairly typical for young, otherwise healthy males.

 

[Marvel Frozen]

Don't sweat it, he almost certainly won't, most of the time these guys run straight to the doctor when something goes wrong. Very rarely do people conpletely forsake modern medicine, what will probably happen if he needs a doctor is he will get his medicine from an MD, and then also munch on some leaves as well.

And of course when he gets better he'll credit the leaves he munched on.

 

[epepke]

He suddenly interupted me when I mentioned quality control.NOTE: this is a paraphrase "Why should the companies worry about quality control ?
Thats the consumers job. I decide what my body needs not the companies, not the doctors.

Healthy people generally don't go to physicians. I'm 42, and I haven't been to a physician in over a year. When next I go, I know exactly what I want: some Metrogel for my rosacea.

However, of course hindsight is 20-20. One possible response is, "Well, then surely you can tell me all the chemicals in the natural medicines you buy and exactly what proportions they are in, and what each one does. So tell me. Pick any bottle of herbal medicine, or some leaves off a tree or a ground plant, and tell me what's in it."

 

[scratchy]

I think a proper response could have been to questione his beliefs about whats "natural" and what is not. There are lot of missunderstandings about that. The gigantic (and growing) knowledge that defines modern medicine doesnt make it "unnatural".

I havent been to a doctor since I was checked up before military service 20 yers ago, but I dont belive that has anything to do whith me curing myself naturaly. I do rather the opposite, to be frank.

 

[goldie]

He suddenly interupted me when I mentioned quality control.NOTE: this is a paraphrase "Why should the companies worry about quality control ?
Thats the consumers job. I decide what my body needs not the companies, not the doctors.

I don't think he knows what quality control is. I'm speaking strictly from an engineering standpoint here. Quality control is, using potato chips as an example, ensuring that when your plant is filling 20 ounce packages, that you are filling them as close to 20 ounces as possible. So you decide that a certain range is acceptable, say 18.5 to 21.5 ounces. Then you test. Pull out a certain percentage of your product and actually weigh it. If too many are over or under, then you reject that batch and check your process.

One thing that most people don't understand about herbals is that the same quantity of one herbal plant does not contain the same quantity of the "medicine" as another herbal plant. The amount can vary a lot.

 

[goldie]

I think people like that should sign some sort of agreement saying that they will never ever use modern medicine or require hospitalization or the services of doctors. Frees up beds for the rest of us, as far as I'm concerned. And no whining allowed when they develop cancer, or ALS or whatever other horrible disease you can think of.

That's a little extreme isn't it? Whether he sees a doctor weekly for the rest of his life or not at all won't have any bearing on if he develops many cancers or ALS.

 

[Prester John]

If the companies don't bother about quality control then they cannot tell you what is in their products, so you cannot therefore decide what does or does not go into your body.

I think there ws a huge scandal last year in Australia, involving Australias largest manufacterer of herbal meds? having to withdraw loads of stock because it was all contaminated (i think it may have been in a commentary as well, maybe someone here can remember the name of the company involved). Thats what a lack of proper QC does for you.

 

[goldie]

I think there ws a huge scandal last year in Australia, involving Australias largest manufacterer of herbal meds? having to withdraw loads of stock because it was all contaminated .

Yes, I remember that. I think quality control was also the problem with L-tryptophane (pardon me if I misspelled).

 

[Hunter]

Erm, I don't suppose anyone knows how to take a VHS tape and turn it into digital media so that I can upload it?


___________________________

You see, He actually believes that he can diagnose himself of anything by "feeling" it. I don't know what to do, there has to be some way to reach him. He is not a stupid person.....Gaah, I am tearing my hair out over here.

 

[Hellbound]

Well, if your graphics card supports video capture, and has a line in port, you can simply run your line from VCR to computer.

Otherwise, you'd probably have to buy an RF adapter to plug the VCR into, then capture that video. You can get an RF adapter for $50 and up.

However, your best bet might be to do a google search...there are many companies that specialize in transfering media from one format to another, and this might be less expensive.

 

[MrMonty]

Erm, I don't suppose anyone knows how to take a VHS tape and turn it into digital media so that I can upload it?

Many digital camcorders can do this easily. I have a very cheap Canon ZR60 that takes an analog signal (anything with component out, i.e. TV, VCR, Tivo) and sends it out it's firewire port. Find a friend or family member with a digital camcorder, they'll probably have a good idea how to downgrade the resolution to a good web-publishing size.


I also never went to the doctor between the age of 6 and 26 for anything but physicals that were necessary to play school sports. Not too uncommon it sounds like.

Monty

 

[Jas]

That's a little extreme isn't it? Whether he sees a doctor weekly for the rest of his life or not at all won't have any bearing on if he develops many cancers or ALS.

No, but the point I'm making is that the ppl who are so down on modern medicine (conspiracy theories and all), are pretty quick to rely on it when it's important...how many people go to a homeopath after they've been horribly mangled in a car accident, or rely on a naturopath for diabetes treatment?

If you're gonna talk the talk...

 

[Jagged Blossom]

how many people go to a homeopath after they've been horribly mangled in a car accident, or rely on a naturopath for diabetes treatment?

If you're gonna talk the talk...

If I could afford it, I would. I became sick for the first time in 1996. Since then, I have ridden what I call the "medical merry go round." I have a significant amount of medical debt with no hope for insurance and minute hope for hospital's charity care in my new town. Modern medicine isn't a cost effective option for everyone.

I learned a long time ago that most doctors are no smarter than I am, they are simply more educated and more experienced. I figured out I was equally capable of possessing similar knowledge and that no one is more experienced, concerning my body, than myself.

While I feel fortunate to live in a society where I have the option of modern medicines, they have not been very beneficial to me thus far. The autoimmune diseases, which I have been diagnosed with, have no medical cure. There are pills which can treat the symptoms, but they come along with a laundry list of damaging side effects.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to seek homeopathic/holisitic treatment for a serious illness/accident. Both of my illnesses are potentially life threatening and I have been able to manage my symptoms through learning about my body and how it responds to different stimuli. I really have no other choice aside from running up thousands of dollars in additional bills which I can't afford to pay.

That isn't to say that I buy into EVERY crack scheme out there. I have never tried any magical, herbal solutions nor do I see myself going that direction in the future. I think the benefit in seeking alternative treatment is that it opens up your mind to a healthy skepticism towards your current treatment and accepting responsibility for yourself and your illness/problem.

I am not arguing that this approach would work for aggressive diseases where prompt medical care is necessary to sustain life, but I believe more education should be provided for medical patients on how to take care of themselves ASIDE from popping pills...

Just my two cents.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that while we are encouraged to be skeptical about natural medicines to protect ourselves...I think we should also remember to have a healthy skepticism about traditional/western medicines as well. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been misdiagnosed during my years visiting the doctors. If I were not as well educated, and familiar with my own body, these errors would have gone unchecked. The truth is that no one knows our bodies better than ourselves irregardless of what medical road we choose.

 

[Hunter]

Hello jagged, welcome to the forums. I am sorry to hear about your autoimmune problems especially.

Let me put it this way- Yea, doctors screw up from time to time because they are just as human as you or I. What that doesn't change is the fact that "alternative therapies" are unproven and thus a very big gamble. Yes, I realize the pain that financial hardship can bring.

You also said that you decide whats good for your body( please correct me if I am setting up an unconcsious strawman here) . But Doctors(and yes, I know you've had some trouble with a few incompetant ones in the past) are trained for years to recognize and treat ailments, many of which you or I stand zero chance of identifying by ourselves.

If you've ever been to www.quackwatch.org, a website run by a Dr.Stephen Barret, he has a number of articles on "the power of coincidence" including peices on why people think alternative therapies work for them...even when they don't. I highly recommend you go to that website and just read what the good doctor has to say on the issue.

Anyhoo, its getting late, I will return to continue this conversation in a bit. Take care of yourself!