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I got solicited by scientology

ComfySlippers said:
I'm guessing that you haven't been on this planet very long.
Scientology is a poorly written aged old scam.
Fall for it? You're dumb.
The only people who have no choice are the ones who are children of their dumb parents.. Let me think, oh there hippy parents who were .... Drum roll please, too stoned to not realise that the pretend sailor, in his pretend boat, with his pretend navy was....Dumb!
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Like I said, blaming the victims. It's their own fault because they were wearing short skirts DUMB.
 
arthwollipot said:
What a ridiculous question.
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What a non answer.

I asked because you seem to feel that those who convert to Scientology have no responsibility for their acts because they are 'victims'.
 
I don't mind assigning some responsibility to the customer-victims of this scam religion. Some are dumb, intentionally ignorant, selfishly seeking promises of riches, etc.

But so what? No matter how much that's the case, it doesn't lessen my opposition to the organization's continued tax-exempt status, violation of the rights of children through horrendous labor and education practices, and ripping apart families through their extreme shunning practices.
 
An interesting data point for this discussion is the strange case of the exit of Leah Remini from the "Church" of Scumology. She says she never researched or read anything bad about it until shortly before she left!!!

As her frustration mounted, she said she decided to commit a serious infraction in Scientology -- she went online and began reading comments from critics of the Church.

Remini said she saw the reports of families who said they were torn apart by the Church’s practice of “disconnection” -- the shunning of ex-members by their friends and relatives still in the Church -- and allegations by former top officials who say they were punched or slapped by David Miscavige.

“I was heartbroken for myself, for my family,” Remini said. “I didn’t want these things to be true.”
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http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/leah-remini-break-church-scientology-wanted/story?id=34854744

In her defense she was a member of the organization from the age of 7 or 8.

And to her credit she did, even so, eventually have some doubts:

One example she said was when she reached a key level of Scientology’s “Bridge to Total Freedom,” or “Operating Thetan 3,” she was at a point where she said key Church secrets about the history of the universe are revealed. In one document written by Church founder L. Ron Hubbard, he tells a story about an intergalactic warlord named Xenu.

“It was some galactic confederation,” Remini said. “There was a war and there was a volcano and they bodied, you know, they took the spirits of people and they encased them into something, into a volcano, blew them up and then those spirits are now inside of you, on you, in you, like you are made up of these things.”

When she read that, Remini said she thought, “this is some crazy s***.” Again, she said she wasn’t ready at that time to walk away from the Church.
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To quote LRon: "Incident One. Zoom. Go through it. Get your stopper off. You know. Rmmm. Rmmm."

 
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The LDS is the same, which is why discussions with Mormons are so frustrating. Any criticism of the church is dismissed as "anti-Mormon propaganda". Getting to feel superior to the poor saps (i.e. rational people) who have been taken in by the criticism is part of the appeal of these cults.
 
Yes, I see the victims of a con as victims. The perpetrator is the con artist. They are the ones you should save your ire for. Not all people who are conned out of their money are sea org, and not all of them are actively engaged in perpetrating the con on others.

The common perception here seems to be that ALL members of the Church of Scientology are equal. They're not - not by a long shot. For a start, there's senior management - Miscavige and the cronies who support his rule. Then there's the Sea Org - which is responsible for most of the human rights violations and injustices that we hear a lot about. And then there's the rank and file members of the church - those who are conned into making "voluntary" contributions. The vast majority of them are in it because they have been sold a line that the Church's tech can help their mental and physical health and wellbeing. They are blameless.

Let's get angry at the senior management and the Sea Org - those who are actively engaged in perpetrating the con - and have a little empathy for the rank-and-file members who are victims of the con.
 
I believe the victim has some responsibility, the degree dependent on the situation. Tom Cruise, for example, has no excuse for perpetuating the beliefs.
 
while I can see that people being unwilling or unable to look at negative literature whilst in a cult may appear crazy, it's not that simple.
I was raised in a uber JW family.
I would bet my bottom dollar they and scientologists are not a million miles apart in their methodology.
You are genuinely taught that nobody else can be trusted, the entire world of "worldly" people are not only destined to die but that apart from attempts conversion you are not to have any contact with them. This being prior to the net, it was almost impossible to find information, and even more relevantly, when it's all apparently apostate it's really hard for the genuine believer to take that enormous risk.
After all, leaving involves you loosing EVERY friend you have, and all your family. everyone.

I would regard those unfortunate enough to get hooked as vulnerable rather than dumb.
 
I got solicited by scientology !!!

So....did you just pay for the quick **** or for the Around the World special!!!???
 
mikado said:
while I can see that people being unwilling or unable to look at negative literature whilst in a cult may appear crazy, it's not that simple.
I was raised in a uber JW family.
I would bet my bottom dollar they and scientologists are not a million miles apart in their methodology.
You are genuinely taught that nobody else can be trusted, the entire world of "worldly" people are not only destined to die but that apart from attempts conversion you are not to have any contact with them. This being prior to the net, it was almost impossible to find information, and even more relevantly, when it's all apparently apostate it's really hard for the genuine believer to take that enormous risk.
After all, leaving involves you loosing EVERY friend you have, and all your family. everyone.

I would regard those unfortunate enough to get hooked as vulnerable rather than dumb.
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Slightly true.
The info about the Scientology scam has been "out there" since its conception.Its just easier to obtain now.
It's been " freely" available in many court records in several countries going back to the 60s.

Unfortunately, if was wasn't for those pesky kids, old man Withers from the haunted amusement arcade gets away with it with because The Good 'Ol USA is too scared to deal with it odd. Odd, because the rest the inhabitants of this planet can did it 60 years ago.
 
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arthwollipot said:
Yeah, ya wanna read my post again? Cruise is hardly in the "rank and file" camp.
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Perhaps, but I believe there are more degrees of nuance than "they are just dumb asses" and "they are just victims." Many of those, especially those raised in it, are isolated from information and I can see them as victims. However, I have a hard time believing all of them are victims. Heck, some of them may have figured out the scam and decided to raise themselves in the ranks to benefit from the scheme.
 
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