I filled out the Census! Did you?

The handwriting part won't ever happen again, most likely, though.

Between the facebooks, youtubes, myspaces, blogs, birth/death certificates, and modern government/police/military records, etc., the census information is going to be way less interesting and revealing in 70 years than it is for us now in researching the 1940s and before.

The more I think about it, the less important the census seems.
 
The right wing whack jobs somehow think that if they fill it out, the gubmit' will come and take their guns.

Seriously.

You'd think if that was their intent, one of the questions would have been "How many guns do you have?". Besides, I mail a tax form from the same address every year. It's not like the government wouldn't know where I live if they decided to take away the guns that I don't own.
 
You'd think if that was their intent, one of the questions would have been "How many guns do you have?". Besides, I mail a tax form from the same address every year. It's not like the government wouldn't know where I live if they decided to take away the guns that I don't own.

Right wing whack jobs don't question how. All they know is the gubmit' wants their guns.
 
Between the facebooks, youtubes, myspaces, blogs, birth/death certificates, and modern government/police/military records, etc., the census information is going to be way less interesting and revealing in 70 years than it is for us now in researching the 1940s and before.

The more I think about it, the less important the census seems.
Especially with the non-informative questions asked this year. Shoot, they didn't even ask if the household inhabitants could read or not!
 
It's been said before: that you don't know what the data is used for doesn't make the data meaningless except to you, because you don't choose to find out what the data is used for. If you don't care to find out, then don't. Or educate yourself. Up to you.

I do know there is no legitimate purpose it can be used for and a lot of illegitimate purposes. That's sufficient. What if the census asked if you own a gun, belong to some fringe religion, belonged to a gang, or were a member of the John Birch Society, were a registered democrat/republican, who you voted for ... ? These are completely illegitimate questions. The census was required in the constitution for the purpose of apportioning congressional seats to states. Equal protection means these factors can not be used for any form of discrimination (pro or anti)

I suppose if your mindset is that you are property of the state and they are permitted to treat you like chattel, of if you believe the government always acts in your best interests - then your position makes sense. There is plenty of evidence that is wrong. Ask the Japanese citizens rounded up into interrment camp in WW2 USING CENSUS RECORDS if race is a legitimate question. It is not, it never was, and government claims that the information cannot be abused are tragically wrong.


So what is the "duty of a democracy?"

Majority rules period?

(And yes, I'm well aware of gerrymandering and all the problems of how voting districts are actually created. I'm also not so far up on my high horse that I can't see how minority rights are a fundamental part of a "Western style" democracy and why "race" in the census still matters even if we wish it weren't so.)

How can a form of government have a "duty" ? It's a sort of nonsense use of language. People can have duties and obligations, abstractions cannot. Does a movie have a "duty" does a sandwich have a "duty" ? Gibberish resulting from muddled thinking.

A pure democracy is an aweful thing. It has a well known problem called the tyranny of the majority. The writers of the constitution (unlike you) understood this very well as they had a keen grasp of history. That is why they created a republic form of government not a pure democracy. In this republic there is a constitution which was intended to restrict the powers of the democracy to only certain aspects of control. The enumerated powers of section 1 article 8 is a list of the 18 specific categories where Congress has the power to issue laws. section 9 and the bill of rights list arenas where congress has no power. Other amendments grant and remove various powers to the legislature.

The only reason we can't vote away the rights of minorities is that this is sometimes prohibited by the constitution. In this way we partially prevent some aspects of a tyranny of the majority.

So you start with some basic misunderstanding of terminology - democracy CAN NEVER protect minority rights. That's an insane thought that we will do whatever some majority wants and minorities will be protected. It is clearly not the democratic aspect of our form of government that protects minority rights. It's the restrictions of the constitution.

The states are COMPLETELY responsible for conducting their elections of congressional representatives (and electoral college representatives too). There must follow the constitutional requirement of not preventing legitimate citizen from voting and treating ALL people (not just minorities) equally.

At one time congressppl were commonly appointed by the state legislature (which has certain advantages and certain disadvantages). Now they are commonly divvied up by geographic congressional district. This has an advantage for a group that happens to be geographically distributed so that they have a 51% majority in as many districts as possible and a disadvantage for groups who happen to be a 49% minority in as many districts as possible. (it's a bit more complicated that that but ... ) Thus gerrymandering was created to purposely create minorities and majorities by drawing geographic district lines using the numbers of peoples of varying groups as a guide.

Some of the most egregious politically based gerrymandering is *usually* illegal, but all gerrymandering is fundamentally immoral. It can only be used to advantage one group and thus disadvantage another.

If I was emperor for 20 minutes I would mandate that all states must elect their representatives from an "at large" pool of candidates. If some minority group (and I do NOT mean just racial groups) thinks it's important enough to concentrate their votes on specific candidates they can easily do so and have an appropriate sized impact on representation. This is not a perfect solution, but it's vastly superior. It would be better if er elected ALL of congressional representatives from a national at large pool. For example gay ppl erpresent a few percent of the population, perhaps 3%, I don't care to quibble. It that size they's have to all co-locate (an impossible requirement) into a~15 congressional districts to have an appropriate proportional impact on representation. OTOH if they had the opportunity to instead focus their votes in a select group of those standing for the 435 house seats, they could have an immediate and approprite size impact. In realtiy we all belong to numerous minority groups and interests.


So no - I don't think you have even a basic understanding of the issue. Democracy has nothing to do with protecting minorities and never did. That's why we have a republic. GIVING minorities a an advantage by gerrymandering districts where they a have a 51% population advantage means you are necessarily disadvantaging the other 49% of the population - which also belong to other unrecognized minority groups. You allowing government to pick and choose which groups to advantage (or sometimes which to disadvantage) and this is immoral, and should be illegal.

==

Government is an abstraction too, but when we consider our specific federal government as the people who manage it's operation (pres, congress, supreme court); these individuals are required to swear an oath to support he constitution, that is follow the formalism of government process and abide by the limitations on the powers of the federal government. These individuals have responsibilities, duties and obligations to us. They regularly fail at these IMO. The constitution is not well enforced in the recent era and major parts of our federal government exist by use of loopholes that were never intended - the commerce clause for drug interdiction for example. If you'd like a nice example of the Constitution being ignored, then compare your examination by federal officers a at airports with your fourth amendment rights to be secure in your person and papers without a warrant.

Since the constitution is the only protection for minority rights and it is regularly ignored violated, this doesn't bode well for the future of our form of government, and especially for the rights of minorites.
 
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I sent mine in and was notified that I needed to send mine in. Maytbe someone didn't like how I filled in the Racial category questions and wants to debate the issue in person. Or maybe an attempt at reducing the numbers of certain ethnics in order to assuire an equitable distribution of the pie.
 
So, do all you little freedom fighters make as big a deal about the gender question as you do the race question? Let's be honest, in a 21st Century Western Democracy, who cares about ovaries vs testicles when it comes to Congressional districts?

Honestly, a bunch of you are using a lot of words to say "I don't get it so it must be stupid". How is that enlightened or forward thinking? And, quite frankly, the poster who compared himself to Rosa Parks should get a friggin Stundie.

And just exactly how many of you self congratulatory Jefferson wannabes actually went to the Census Bureau to get the answers to your questions? None of you, it seems. Your JAQing seems to be in the same vein as the Twoofers JAQing.
 
A pure democracy is an aweful thing. It has a well known problem called the tyranny of the majority. The writers of the constitution (unlike you)

THIS WAS PART OF MY POINT. (I admit - I've muddled the terminology a little, mixing the colloquial definition of democracy "Modern Western-Style Democratic Republic" with the strict definition. But to claim that I don't understand the problem? I'm the one who brought up the 51% v. 49%!)

If I was emperor for 20 minutes I would mandate that all states must elect their representatives from an "at large" pool of candidates.
...
This is not a perfect solution, but it's vastly superior. It would be better if er elected ALL of

I never even claimed that using race from the census is a great solution. I even pointed out that it is becoming an increasingly outdated one.

Your "at large" idea is an interesting one (and the kind of conversation I had originally hoped to provoke), but missing an important detail. Which voting system? Is there one you had in mind - there are many which select N winners from M candidates.

(And fine - if you want to be pedantic, I admit I was wrong. Democracy is most definitely not about protecting minority rights - it is explicitly about allowing the majority to decide. )

I stand by the intent of my statement however - one of the fundamental aspects of a "Modern Western-style Democracy" is (limited) protection of minority rights.
 
So, do all you little freedom fighters make as big a deal about the gender question as you do the race question? Let's be honest, in a 21st Century Western Democracy, who cares about ovaries vs testicles when it comes to Congressional districts?

Honestly, a bunch of you are using a lot of words to say "I don't get it so it must be stupid". How is that enlightened or forward thinking? And, quite frankly, the poster who compared himself to Rosa Parks should get a friggin Stundie.

And just exactly how many of you self congratulatory Jefferson wannabes actually went to the Census Bureau to get the answers to your questions? None of you, it seems. Your JAQing seems to be in the same vein as the Twoofers JAQing.

They've kept the gubmit' from finding out how many toilets they have. I can't even imagine how much bravery that requires.
 
So, do all you little freedom fighters make as big a deal about the gender question as you do the race question? Let's be honest, in a 21st Century Western Democracy, who cares about ovaries vs testicles when it comes to Congressional districts?

Honestly, a bunch of you are using a lot of words to say "I don't get it so it must be stupid". How is that enlightened or forward thinking? And, quite frankly, the poster who compared himself to Rosa Parks should get a friggin Stundie.

And just exactly how many of you self congratulatory Jefferson wannabes actually went to the Census Bureau to get the answers to your questions? None of you, it seems. Your JAQing seems to be in the same vein as the Twoofers JAQing.


My, oh my.

Whether one is male or female (or some other sexual category) is a very real thing.

'race' is not.

The false notion of race has been used to cause a lot of harm over the years. I'm not interested in continuing the fine tradition.

I'll happily ignore the rest of your post.
 
My, oh my.

Whether one is male or female (or some other sexual category) is a very real thing.

But what does it have to do with Congressional representation?

'race' is not.

I'll bet the black people in the US will be glad to hear that.

Are you a white person that lives in a predominately white area?

The false notion of race has been used to cause a lot of harm over the years. I'm not interested in continuing the fine tradition.

It will continue with or without you. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away. Don't pretend you've got some moral high ground. Statistics like this help to make sure it isn't used to harm others.

Besides, all the Census does is take data for statistics. Your little protest is as lame as the revolutionaries who refused to buy french fries.

I'll happily ignore the rest of your post.

Good idea. You're far enough behind already.
 
Nah, I'm not going to bother.

I'm surrounded by idiots and knaves. They've already won.

By the way, 'patriot' really doesn't apply here - I've nothing to do with the yahoos or tea-baggers, which I think you're trying to imply.

Not implying anything. It takes a true patriot, a Real American(tm), to fight the gubmit.
 
The why do they claim the data will be used to determine how billions of dollars will be spent ?


Because the agencies that deploy resources to various districts use the Census data to figure out where to deploy how much of a resource.

Does anyone here actually, you know, ask the Census Bureau itself? That seems to be something a skeptic would do.
 

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