I challenge you: your best alternate to materialism

[Belz...]

http://www.dejanrakovicfund.org/radovi/1999-INFORMATICA.pdf is a scientific evidence done by professional scientists

The problem is fundamental: you don't even know what a scientist is.

Their conclusion is that they agree with the "interpretations of meditation as a fourth major state of consciousness, the restful alertness state."

Doron, this IS NOT what I asked for: I asked you HOW meditation can make you aware of the simplest state of existence. So far all you've done is link to peoplee explaining what TM is.

 

[doronshadmi]

A quack, in other words. He's an electrical engineer who thinks he's a doctor.

He has indeed phd as clearly seen in http://www.dejanrakovic.com/biography.html.

In other words, you have no case.

 

[Nonpareil]

He has indeed phd as clearly seen in http://www.dejanrakovic.com/biography.html.

In other words, you have no case.

Do you understand the difference between doctor and doctorate, doron?

 

[doronshadmi]

Doron, this IS NOT what I asked for: I asked you HOW meditation can make you aware of the simplest state of existence.

By systematically and effortlessly being aware of finer activity of thoughts process, until one is aware of the finest state of awareness, which is naturally free of thoughts process and known as the simplest state of existence.

It is very simply addressed in

             SELF-AWARENESS 
                
             NO         YES      
        +-----------+-----------+
 T      |           |           |
 H  YES | DREAMING  |  WAKING   |
 O      |           |           |
 U      +-----------+-----------+
 G      |           |  RESTFUL  |
 T  NO  | SLEEPING  |           |
 S      |           | ALERTNESS |
        +-----------+-----------+

that is based on the article http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/nyas.12316/pdf, which is an excellent article on this subject.

------------------

Another way to address it is by using topology.

According to topology 1-dimensional non-composed element is the same element whether it is vibrating or non-vibrating, so there is no problem to move from its vibrating states (equivalent to awareness at the level of thoughts process) to its non-vibrating state (equivalent to the simplest state of awareness, which is actually the simplest state of existence that is the substance of all possible variant phenomena, where matter is, by definition, space\time (and therefore) variant phenomena (vibrating states)).

 

[doronshadmi]

Do you understand the difference between doctor and doctorate, doron?

He has phd, not md , so?

 

[Nonpareil]

He has phd, not md , so?

So he is not a medical doctor. He is an electrical engineer.

And yet he thinks he has the expertise necessary to lecture on such diverse subjects as "integrative biophysics", "quantum medicine", "quantum-holographic informatics", the "integration" of traditional and contemporary medicine, acupuncture, the "biophysical nature" of "consciousness and vital energy", and using "quantum-informational techniques" to reduce stress.

He. Is. A quack.

 

[Belz...]

By systematically and effortlessly being aware of finer activity of thoughts process, until one is aware of the finest state of awareness, which is naturally free of thoughts process and known as the simplest state of existence.

No, that's what I'm requesting clarification for. You just reworded your claim. I want to know how it works. In other words, how do neurons in your brain interact with this 'simplest state', and how your mind becomes aware of said interaction through introspection.

It is very simply addressed in

Again, that does not address the question in any way.

 

[Dancing David]

Perhaps you haven't realised, the purpose of meditation is to subjugate the mind and experience existence directly. As such, thinking is irrelevant.

Bold over broad definition at odds with many schools of mediation.

Seriously, 'subjugate' what a war like and dominant path.

 

[Nonpareil]

Bold over broad definition at odds with many schools of mediation.

And essentially meaningless to boot.

 

[Dancing David]

Through practice it becomes communion*, the mind is present, but inactive. Anyway your point hinges on the primacy of mind in a being. It is well known through the biological record that significant mental activity and particularly higher mental faculties, are a fairly recent development in living organisms.

As such before this development organisms were in touch with direct experience, entirely without mind, nothing much has changed, other than the complexity of mental activity in humans, the body and particularly metabolic life is unchanged. This being the case, provided a person has the ability to subjugate the mind, he/she can return to that state of direct experience.

Indeed this is one of the main goals in the mystical life.

*the word communion will likely require some explanation, as I have found is the case with theological terminology.

Rubbish and wishful thinking, shows obsession with categories with no real meaning.

If you have a mind then so does a plenaria, once again you make foolish over broad statements about the mystical life that are just your personal bias.

I can not fathom any one foolish enough to 'subjugate' an imaginary part of the human experience, what dominant, agressive and silly notion that is.

 

[Dancing David]

Life is an experience for any organism with life, this does not require mind. Just look around you in nature, there are lots of organisms doing a lot of experiencing without a mind.

Assumption without merit, how the **** do you know you have a mind?

 

[doronshadmi]

So he is not a medical doctor. He is an electrical engineer.

No, he is more than just an electrical engineer according to:

Professor Rakovic has a wide scientific interest, broadly related to materials science and biophysics, covering the fields of nanomaterials and biomaterials, nanotechnology and spectroscopy, as well as biophysics and bioinformatics of biomolecular, psychosomatic, cognitive and electrophysiological functions.


Since 1997 professor Rakovic is being vice-president elect of the Yugoslav Materials Research Society, and guest co-editor of 10 volumes from YUCOMAT conferences being published by Materials Science Forum, Materials and Manufacturing Processes, International Journal of Modern Physics B, and Acta Physica Polonica A. He is also a member of international editorial board of the journals Informatica and Medical Data Review, and referee of the journals Physica Scripta, Nanosciences and Nanotechnology Letters, Foundations of Science, Connection Science, NeuroQuantology, EPJ Nonlinear Biomedical Physics, Indian Journal of Biochemistry and Biophysics, International Journal of Radiation Biology, Digital, Signal Processing, Medical and Biological Engineering and Computing, and Journal of Medical Systems, as well. During the period 1995-1998 he headed regional project Brain and Consciousness at the European Center for Peace and Development (ECPD) of the United Nations University for Peace in Belgrade and co-edited 5 books published by ECPD, while from 2009 he is heading the ECPD International School of Quantum-Informational Medicine, with (co-)authored ECPD thematic textbook. In 1999 he co-founded International Anti-Stress Center (IASC) in Belgrade, becoming president elect of the IASC Governing Board, with wide educational holistic anti-stress activities. In 2009 he also founded his Fund (DRF) for Holistic Research and Ecology of Consciousness, with wider promotive holistic activities including co-organization of Symposium of Quantum-Informational Medicine QIM 2011.

He has published about 250 scientific papers and communications and 40 books and proceedings, cited nearly 300 times in scientific periodicals and monographs.

 

[punshhh]

Bold over broad definition at odds with many schools of mediation.

point taken.

Seriously, 'subjugate' what a war like and dominant path.

Perhaps the word subjugation is a bit strict and some schools of meditation don't control the mind, some do though.

I used the word to emphasise a point, perhaps it would be better to describe it as stilling the mind.

 

[punshhh]

Rubbish and wishful thinking, shows obsession with categories with no real meaning.

If you have a mind then so does a plenaria, once again you make foolish over broad statements about the mystical life that are just your personal bias.

I can not fathom any one foolish enough to 'subjugate' an imaginary part of the human experience, what dominant, agressive and silly notion that is.

So you are saying there is no mind? And that a brain is necessary for experience?

 

[punshhh]

Assumption without merit, how the **** do you know you have a mind?

Because it performs mental feats, or do you think the brain is doing that?

 

[doronshadmi]

how do neurons in your brain interact with this 'simplest state',

By being tuned to work on alpha, theta and beta brain waves synchronization, which have strong correlations between front and back cortex.

and how your mind becomes aware of said interaction through introspection.

There is a correlation between alpha, theta and beta brain waves synchronization, and one's awareness of the simplest state of existence (known in terms of awareness as restful alertness, where one is aware of itself without thoughts (alpha, theta and beta waves are correlated in one's brain).

More information can be found, for example, in http://www.ece.uah.edu/~jovanov/papers/C1997_Tomasevic_TM.pdf.

 

[Nonpareil]

No, he is more than just an electrical engineer according to:

Interest does not equal understanding.

He is trained in electrical engineering. He is not a medical doctor, a quantum physicist, or even a medical historian.

He. Is. A quack.

 

[doronshadmi]

Interest does not equal understanding.

He is trained in electrical engineering. He is not a medical doctor, a quantum physicist, or even a medical historian.

He. Is. A quack.

A very shallow reply to http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10422300&postcount=1072 content.

It can be added to your failure about http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10421393&postcount=1049.

(B.T.W you are invited to analyze http://www.ece.uah.edu/~jovanov/papers/C1997_Tomasevic_TM.pdf and share it with the posters of this thread).

 

[Nonpareil]

A very shallow reply to http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10422300&postcount=1072 content.

A shallow reply suffices for a shallow assertion.

 

[Belz...]

By being tuned to work on alpha, theta and beta brain waves synchronization, which have strong correlations between front and back cortex.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Are you aware that these brain waves are _effects_ of brain function ?

There is a correlation between alpha, theta and beta brain waves synchronization, and one's awareness of the simplest state of existence

That's not what your link says. It links these waves to meditation. It says nothing about neutral monism. Please explain how brain waves relate to me becoming aware of the simplest state of existence.