I challenge you: your best alternate to materialism

[doronshadmi]

Perhaps he means drinking oneself into unconsciousness. After all, in that state, one experiences no awareness of ones surroundings, awareness of the passage of time, introspection, emotion, thought, memory, or volitional action. As opposed to normal waking existence which does involve all those complexities.

Perhaps you try Transcendental Meditation.

What cosmologists and biologists describe as the past evolution of the universe could just be the Universal All gradually sobering up after a cosmic bender (also known as "the Big Gulp").

Take, for example the Higgs boson, which gave in the early universe the masses of some fundamental particles.

Today we can't find free Higgs bosons, and in order to measure them we had to build LHC that enables to recover the conditions that were in the early universe.

It means that also the simplest state of existence (known by Physics as the absolute symmetry before the big-bang) is available right know, and brains like us are actually enable to directly know it.

This is exactly the purpose of techniques like Transcendental Meditation.

 

[Belz...]

No, you can't conclude anything about the simplest state of existence, until you directly know it. your unicorn nonsense has nothing to do with it.

It has everything to do with it: no evidence, no medal.

Currently the best technique is Transcendental Meditation.

And how does that help ?

1) No mind-reading is needed in order to expose your contradictory hypothesis, as clearly analyzed in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10403346&postcount=789.

Your analysis is flawed because it's based on a stupid understanding of what was said. Also because it makes no sense.

2) You are the one that actually ignore himself by not actually practicing any technique that enables to directly know the simplest state of existence.

Maybe because until you can prove that it exists, I don't give a **** about it.

The fact is that what is called "dark matter" or "dark energy" means that we currently do not know what they are.

We don't know what kind of matter it is. It's still matter.

 

[Myriad]

Perhaps you try Transcendental Meditation.

Perhaps, but it's obvious that deep coma is a more simple state of existence than any TM meditative state. The latter retains complications like concentration, awareness, and sensory responsiveness, while coma lacks those complexities and is therefore simpler.

Take, for example the Higgs boson, which gave in the early universe the masses of some fundamental particles.

Today we can't find free Higgs bosons, and in order to measure them we had to build LHC that enables to recover the conditions that were in the early universe.

It means that also the simplest state of existence (known by Physics as the absolute symmetry before the big-bang) is available right know, and brains like us are actually enable to directly know it.

This is exactly the purpose of techniques like Transcendental Meditation.

The purpose of TM is to collide particles at high energy so as to produce Higgs bosons? It doesn't seem very suitable for that purpose at all. Perhaps you can be more clear about what "this" in the final sentence refers to.

 

[Belz...]

Here's Doron's "logic": you are made of particles and thought. Particles and thoughts are manifestation of a third, more basic form of existence. Therefore you can access them through thought.

That makes no sense, of course.

Even if we engage in meditation, and it turns out that we have said experience, so what ?

 

[tsig]

Perhaps you try Transcendental Meditation.


Take, for example the Higgs boson, which gave in the early universe the masses of some fundamental particles.

Today we can't find free Higgs bosons, and in order to measure them we had to build LHC that enables to recover the conditions that were in the early universe.

It means that also the simplest state of existence (known by Physics as the absolute symmetry before the big-bang) is available right know, and brains like us are actually enable to directly know it.

This is exactly the purpose of techniques like Transcendental Meditation.

Free my Bosons!!!

 

[Belz...]

we can't find free Higgs bosons

Free my Bosons!!!

You two sound like Boson buddies.

 

[doronshadmi]

Perhaps, but it's obvious that deep coma is a more simple state of existence than any TM meditative state.

Not at all. Deep coma is only the expressed material level of the simplest state of existence. By using TM one is directly aware of the simplest state of existence without any thoughts' process, where the simplest state of existence is the substance of all possible expressions.

 

[Belz...]

Not at all. Deep coma is only the expressed material level of the simplest state of existence.

So are stars, but you don't study them through meditation.

 

[doronshadmi]

Here's Doron's "logic": you are made of particles and thought. Particles and thoughts are manifestation of a third, more basic form of existence. Therefore you can access them through thought.

That makes no sense, of course.

Even if we engage in meditation, and it turns out that we have said experience, so what ?

Once again you comprehend the simplest state of existence as one of its expressions, by count it as one_of_many thing.

The direct awareness of the simplest state of existence can't be comprehended as some experience of its expressed level.

You are doomed to fail again and again as long as you are not directly aware of the simplest state of existence.

 

[doronshadmi]

So are stars, but you don't study them through meditation.

Once again, the purpose of TM is to directly be aware of the simplest state of existence, which is not broken yet into the multiplicity of observer_observing_observed trichotomy.

Since the substance of any multiplicity is the simplest state of existence, you get the natural basis for all possible investigations right from their source.

 

[doronshadmi]

The purpose of TM is to collide particles at high energy so as to produce Higgs bosons?

No. I gave a concrete example of how our brains enabled (by using physical agents like LHC) to recover the conditions of the earlier universe right know, which means that Higgs boson are not particles that were found only in the past, but they are actually existing right now hidden in the space\time fabric of the universe (otherwise LHC could not recover them).

By following the same reasoning, the absolute symmetry before the big-bang is not only at the past of the universe, but it is available right know as the simplest state of existence, which is the substance of the expressed universe after the big-bang.

By practicing TM we are able to directly aware of the substance of the expressed universe, and by stabilize this awareness as the basis of all our expressions, we are naturally in harmony with any possible expression, whether it is in the borders of our body or beyond its borders.

 

[Belz...]

Once again you comprehend the simplest state of existence as one of its expressions, by count it as one_of_many thing.

The direct awareness of the simplest state of existence can't be comprehended as some experience of its expressed level.

Why do you always revert back to word salad when you have the opportunity to make a point ?

Once again, the purpose of TM is to directly be aware of the simplest state of existence

How does that work ?

Answer that one.

 

[tsig]

Not at all. Deep coma is only the expressed material level of the simplest state of existence. By using TM one is directly aware of the simplest state of existence without any thoughts' process, where the simplest state of existence is the substance of all possible expressions.

Here I thought I was just passing out from the booze.

 

[tsig]

No. I gave a concrete example of how our brains enabled (by using physical agents like LHC) to recover the conditions of the earlier universe right know, which means that Higgs boson are not particles that were found only in the past, but they are actually existing right now hidden in the space\time fabric of the universe (otherwise LHC could not recover them).

By following the same reasoning, the absolute symmetry before the big-bang is not only at the past of the universe, but it is available right know as the simplest state of existence, which is the substance of the expressed universe after the big-bang.

By practicing TM we are able to directly aware of the substance of the expressed universe, and by stabilize this awareness as the basis of all our expressions, we are naturally in harmony with any possible expression, whether it is in the borders of our body or beyond its borders.

Your posts are not the best advertisement for TM.

 

[Myriad]

No. I gave a concrete example of how our brains enabled (by using physical agents like LHC) to recover the conditions of the earlier universe right know, which means that Higgs boson are not particles that were found only in the past, but they are actually existing right now hidden in the space\time fabric of the universe (otherwise LHC could not recover them).

By following the same reasoning, the absolute symmetry before the big-bang is not only at the past of the universe, but it is available right know as the simplest state of existence, which is the substance of the expressed universe after the big-bang.

Okay, that's better.

But there cannot be absolute symmetry "before" the Big Bang or at any other time. If there were, there could not be a Big Bang. Change is asymmetry.

By practicing TM we are able to directly aware of the substance of the expressed universe, and by stabilize this awareness as the basis of all our expressions, we are naturally in harmony with any possible expression, whether it is in the borders of our body or beyond its borders.

Unlikely. By what information pathway can this direct awareness occur? Senses can only respond to distinctions. The same is true of any form of cognition. And without senses or cognition, one might as well be a rock. Is a rock directly aware of the substance of the expressed universe? If so, what good does such awareness do (whether to a rock, or to a person)?

 

[doronshadmi]

Okay, that's better.

But there cannot be absolute symmetry "before" the Big Bang or at any other time. If there were, there could not be a Big Bang. Change is asymmetry.

Absolute symmetry is the substance of the ever asymmetric changeable space\time, but not vise versa. This the reason of why it is available as the simplest state of existence at the past, present and future of space\time without being changed by its multiple asymmetric expressions.

Life phenomena is exactly the space\time process that eventually enables to directly be aware of its substance as the simplest state of existence, which remains invariant w.r.t its variant expressions (and this is exactly the meaning of being substance).

Unlikely. By what information pathway can this direct awareness occur? Senses can only respond to distinctions. The same is true of any form of cognition.

The simplest state of existence is the substance of the multiplicity of observer_observing_observed trichotomy, which means that it is the substance of senses, which is directly known only if life phenomena directly aware of the invariant simplest state of existence.

This is exactly what becomes available by techniques like Transcendental Meditation, and on this planet life phenomena can directly be aware of the invariant simplest state of existence by creatures like us.

And without senses or cognition, one might as well be a rock. Is a rock directly aware of the substance of the expressed universe? If so, what good does such awareness do (whether to a rock, or to a person)?

Any phenomena that is bounded by space\time changes (where being in coma, deep sleep, sleep with dreams, or being aware only to the changed, is actually being bounded by space\time changes) can't be directly aware of the invariant simplest state of existence, which is unbounded by space\time changes.

We as human beings actually fulfill our full potential only is we actually become the factor of harmony among space\time changes.

It can't be done if we are only bounded by space\time changes, and this is exactly where techniques like Transcendental Meditation get on stage as a natural step of life-phenomena evolution.

If we are not become the factor of harmony among space\time changes we will be naturally replaced by other life phenomena etc. until some life phenomena actually fulfill itself by being the factor of harmony among space\time changes.

The goal of science is exactly to fulfill ourselves as factors of harmony among space\time changes.

 

[Belz...]

Still waiting for an answer, Doron: how does meditation allow me to do the things you claim ?

 

[doronshadmi]

Still waiting for an answer, Doron: how does meditation allow me to do the things you claim ?

Only by actually practicing it, and never by talking or thinking about it.

Currently the best known technique that is available to us is Transcendental Meditation, which is an effortless method that very naturally enables to be aware of finer levels of the thoughts process and then transcend it and directly be aware of the simplest state of existence.

More you practice it, more your entire body becomes a factor of harmony among space\time changes (all your actions are naturally tuned by the simplest state of existence, which is the invariant substance of all possible space\time variants).

Currently Transcendental Meditation is learned only by the TM movement, but the real goal is to systematically use scientific methods in order to improve it in such a way that it will not be depend on any particular movement.

 

[turingtest]

Okay, that's better.

But there cannot be absolute symmetry "before" the Big Bang or at any other time. If there were, there could not be a Big Bang. Change is asymmetry.
...

Absolute symmetry is the substance of the ever asymmetric changeable space\time, but not vise versa. This the reason of why it is available as the simplest state of existence at the past, present and future of space\time without being changed by its multiple asymmetric expressions.

Life phenomena is exactly the space\time process that eventually enables to directly be aware of its substance as the simplest state of existence, which remains invariant w.r.t its variant expressions (and this is exactly the meaning of being substance).
...

Is it just me, or does Doron have this weird habit of lifting words/phrases (like "absolute symmetry" and "asymmetry") from other folks' posts and simply dropping them, stripped of their original context or point, into his usual meaningless (and circular) chant as if that will give it more substance, as if sprinkling a word salad with croutons will make it meat?

To be honest (not to say blunt) about it, it seems to me that Doron's posts have gotten to the point where they no longer have even the substance of salad anymore- they're more like word soups.

 

[dlorde]

... Higgs boson are not particles that were found only in the past, but they are actually existing right now hidden in the space\time fabric of the universe (otherwise LHC could not recover them).

Not really - they're not existing and hidden; but they can be created given sufficient excitation of the Higgs field. It would be more accurate to say they are latent in the Higgs field.