Ed said:
Tell me, what medication on earth doesn't work through Placebo effect? I've read a study for well respected heart medicine, cough med... etc that were proven as good as placibo. Hypnosis might be a way to talk to the "supernatural Placebo power" that you have in order to cure you.
If you are ask your doctor to give you a prescribtion headache drug. And your sole purpose is to prove that the drug doesn't help, the drug will never work, and no one can prove it didn't.
Synvisc. Hyalgen. Synagis. Protropin. Wellbutrin. Codeine. Tylenol. Aspirin. Ketamine. Ara-c. Adriamycin.
In this order: Osteoarthritis pain. Osteoarthritis pain. Infectious disease in premature babies. Synthetic growth hormone. Non-SSRI (see, I can be taught!). Pain reliever (prescription). Pain reliever (Over the counter). Anaesthetic. Chemotherapy medication. Chemotherapy medication.
!Xx+-Rational-+xX!
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Skeptics hypnotism does not exist and I would hate see rational skeptics fall for this quackery like many have fallen for dreaming!
Vampy's Experience
I'll admit that I once paid $40 to go to a group hypnotherapy session to help me quit smoking. I was desperate. During the hypnosis, I kept thinking to myself that I didn't feel hypnotized. What does being hypnotized feel like? I hadn't a clue.
I left the session and got into my car and looked down at my half full pack of Marlboro's. I felt no desire to smoke one, (I was a two pack a day smoker) I felt no desire to smoke one as he had "predicted" for about a day and a half. But one thing I must confess.....I did not get rid of my cigarettes immeadiately after the session as he said we all must. I looked at them quite often and thought to myself, "There is no way he hypnotized me into never want to smoke one again after 20 or so years of a full blown addiction."
As I said, after about a day and a half, I lit up, and continue to smoke much to my disapointment.
I tell this to make no point, I tell it only because you asked. I do not think it worked....obviously, but WHY do I not think it worked. I dunno that either. I have a lot of "What if's" running around in my brain.
What if: (all of the below and more)
I would have thrown my cigs away?
I had truly believed that it was going to work?
I had not been so sure that I was destined to be a smoker?
My desire to quit were stronger?
Take from it what you will. Would I try it again? I don't know. If A doctor told me I had to quit tomorrow or I would surely die in a week, I'd probably try anything. You know?
Hope it was ok for a newbie just to jump on in here. I have been reading for a few weeks now, and I am very.....what's the word....intrugued? (sp) so I decided to register.
HUGE thanks to Hal for all of his help, and as he probably has suspected by now...Yes...I'm a blonde. *smiles*
--Vampy
____________________________________________________
"There's a sucker born every minute at Transylvania Maternity Hospital."
____________________________________________________
I'll admit that I once paid $40 to go to a group hypnotherapy session to help me quit smoking. I was desperate. During the hypnosis, I kept thinking to myself that I didn't feel hypnotized. What does being hypnotized feel like? I hadn't a clue.
I left the session and got into my car and looked down at my half full pack of Marlboro's. I felt no desire to smoke one, (I was a two pack a day smoker) I felt no desire to smoke one as he had "predicted" for about a day and a half. But one thing I must confess.....I did not get rid of my cigarettes immeadiately after the session as he said we all must. I looked at them quite often and thought to myself, "There is no way he hypnotized me into never want to smoke one again after 20 or so years of a full blown addiction."
As I said, after about a day and a half, I lit up, and continue to smoke much to my disapointment.
I tell this to make no point, I tell it only because you asked. I do not think it worked....obviously, but WHY do I not think it worked. I dunno that either. I have a lot of "What if's" running around in my brain.
What if: (all of the below and more)
I would have thrown my cigs away?
I had truly believed that it was going to work?
I had not been so sure that I was destined to be a smoker?
My desire to quit were stronger?
Take from it what you will. Would I try it again? I don't know. If A doctor told me I had to quit tomorrow or I would surely die in a week, I'd probably try anything. You know?
Hope it was ok for a newbie just to jump on in here. I have been reading for a few weeks now, and I am very.....what's the word....intrugued? (sp) so I decided to register.
HUGE thanks to Hal for all of his help, and as he probably has suspected by now...Yes...I'm a blonde. *smiles*
--Vampy
____________________________________________________
"There's a sucker born every minute at Transylvania Maternity Hospital."
____________________________________________________
William H.
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Jeff Corey said:
As I already demonstrated in a prior thread; you are incorrect. You took the method of a study out of its context.
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Suezoled said:
Wrong. It is proven. Look up the varous hypnosis journals.
Hypnotists often cure smoking by linking it to a negative feeling.
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Mercutio said:
It may also be the case that for some things individualization works better than doing those things in a group.
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Re: Vampy's Experience
With classical hypnosis, for many people, it feels like being engrossed in a movie, or the feeling right before you wake up in the morning. If your hypnotist had not done enough preliminary work for you to know that (especially with a group, where he was not going to be able to adjust for each individual's reactions), then I have big doubts about his training.
You demonstrated a classic form of resistance to being hypnotized; which is nearly impossible to work with in a group context unless the hypnotist deems to treat everyone as if they were all experiencing the same form of resistance; and yours is the particular type they choose.
In addition, hypnotherapy can work in a single session; but more often, you need 3 or more sessions to be sure that you've resolved or integrated a particular problem. I think most posters here believe in the myth of the myth of single-session cures for all people and all problems with hypnosis.
I'll just outline what a hypnotist, in my opinion, should suggest in the context of smoking stops: Take the motor set of smoking: upon seeing a cigarrette, this involves an automatic reaching toward the cigarette, picking it up, getting the lighter or matches with either the same or the other hand, positioning the lighter adjacent to the cigarrette, lighting it, puffing on it, etc. Now we need to attach to the trigger and starting portion of this motor set, a negative feeling.
So, recall a negative feeling such as nausea or trepidation, hesitation. Recall a specific time, a specific incident where you felt this. In your minds' eyes, see what you saw at the time, hear what you heard at the time, feel what you felt at the time - both internally and with the skin, what you smell and taste, what you are saying to yourself in your head, etc. It's important here to make sure that the person is actually recalling all of these vividly, floridly. This works better when individualized.
Ask the client "Are you willing to feel this (negative way) everytime you begin to reach for a cigarette?" Then have her visualize (fantasize) in her mind's eye, reaching for a cigarrette and feeling that way and rejecting the cigarette. Several times. In several contexts: at home, at a club, at a party, in the car, someone offers her one, etc.
Bring her back to full consciousness.
Then, put a real cigarette next to them and tell her to reach for it. In other words, check to see if she actually does feel the negative sensations when she engages the motor set.
There are other ways to do it. But I, personally, like this type of method.
I ask this: Surgeons can now perform operations from thousands of miles away using robots. The robot mimics what the doctor does with their hands. Would it make sense to do 100 heart surgeries simultaneously, from the same set of hand movements of a single doctor? Or does it make more sense to individuallize things a bit? It is much the same with hypnosis. Each person will react differently to suggestions, each will provide a different level and type of resistance. Though sometimes the difference is negligible; it's often more effective to treat people individually unless they're only looking for relaxation and/or guided fantasy.
VampKira said:
With classical hypnosis, for many people, it feels like being engrossed in a movie, or the feeling right before you wake up in the morning. If your hypnotist had not done enough preliminary work for you to know that (especially with a group, where he was not going to be able to adjust for each individual's reactions), then I have big doubts about his training.
You demonstrated a classic form of resistance to being hypnotized; which is nearly impossible to work with in a group context unless the hypnotist deems to treat everyone as if they were all experiencing the same form of resistance; and yours is the particular type they choose.
In addition, hypnotherapy can work in a single session; but more often, you need 3 or more sessions to be sure that you've resolved or integrated a particular problem. I think most posters here believe in the myth of the myth of single-session cures for all people and all problems with hypnosis.
I'll just outline what a hypnotist, in my opinion, should suggest in the context of smoking stops: Take the motor set of smoking: upon seeing a cigarrette, this involves an automatic reaching toward the cigarette, picking it up, getting the lighter or matches with either the same or the other hand, positioning the lighter adjacent to the cigarrette, lighting it, puffing on it, etc. Now we need to attach to the trigger and starting portion of this motor set, a negative feeling.
So, recall a negative feeling such as nausea or trepidation, hesitation. Recall a specific time, a specific incident where you felt this. In your minds' eyes, see what you saw at the time, hear what you heard at the time, feel what you felt at the time - both internally and with the skin, what you smell and taste, what you are saying to yourself in your head, etc. It's important here to make sure that the person is actually recalling all of these vividly, floridly. This works better when individualized.
Ask the client "Are you willing to feel this (negative way) everytime you begin to reach for a cigarette?" Then have her visualize (fantasize) in her mind's eye, reaching for a cigarrette and feeling that way and rejecting the cigarette. Several times. In several contexts: at home, at a club, at a party, in the car, someone offers her one, etc.
Bring her back to full consciousness.
Then, put a real cigarette next to them and tell her to reach for it. In other words, check to see if she actually does feel the negative sensations when she engages the motor set.
There are other ways to do it. But I, personally, like this type of method.
I ask this: Surgeons can now perform operations from thousands of miles away using robots. The robot mimics what the doctor does with their hands. Would it make sense to do 100 heart surgeries simultaneously, from the same set of hand movements of a single doctor? Or does it make more sense to individuallize things a bit? It is much the same with hypnosis. Each person will react differently to suggestions, each will provide a different level and type of resistance. Though sometimes the difference is negligible; it's often more effective to treat people individually unless they're only looking for relaxation and/or guided fantasy.
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Re: hypnosis & stage hypnosis
Well, I was just looking through "Psychological Assessment", a journal published by the American Psychological Association. The March, 1995 issue on p.49 has an interesting study regarding hypnotizability scales, titled: "The Computer-Assisted Hypnosis Scale: Standardization and Norming of a Computer-Administered Measure of Hypnotic Ability"
Part of the introduction contains this summary of recent research:
"Several recent studies have found that hypnotic susceptibility scores predict outcome in smoking cessation programs that include a hypnosis component (Baer, Carey, & Meminger, 1986; A.F. Barabasz, Baer, Sheehan, & M. Barabasz, 1986; Holroyd, 1991; Spiegel, 1990). Similar findings have been obtained in weight control programs (Levitt, 1993), pain management programs (Stam, McGrath, Brooke, & Cosier, 1986; van Dyck, Zitman, Linssen, & Spinhoven, 1991), and in the treatment of asthma and skin disorders (Wadden & Anderton, 1982). Furthermore, diagnosis of posttraumatic stress disorder and dissociative disorders has been informed by careful assessment of hypnotizability in light of its likely contribution to the formation and maintenance of these symptom clusters (D. Spiegel, Hunt, & Dondershine, 1988)."
In my opinion, Hypnotic Ability, like any skill, can be developed by practically anyone.
xray45 said:
Well, I was just looking through "Psychological Assessment", a journal published by the American Psychological Association. The March, 1995 issue on p.49 has an interesting study regarding hypnotizability scales, titled: "The Computer-Assisted Hypnosis Scale: Standardization and Norming of a Computer-Administered Measure of Hypnotic Ability"
Part of the introduction contains this summary of recent research:
"Several recent studies have found that hypnotic susceptibility scores predict outcome in smoking cessation programs that include a hypnosis component (Baer, Carey, & Meminger, 1986; A.F. Barabasz, Baer, Sheehan, & M. Barabasz, 1986; Holroyd, 1991; Spiegel, 1990). Similar findings have been obtained in weight control programs (Levitt, 1993), pain management programs (Stam, McGrath, Brooke, & Cosier, 1986; van Dyck, Zitman, Linssen, & Spinhoven, 1991), and in the treatment of asthma and skin disorders (Wadden & Anderton, 1982). Furthermore, diagnosis of posttraumatic stress disorder and dissociative disorders has been informed by careful assessment of hypnotizability in light of its likely contribution to the formation and maintenance of these symptom clusters (D. Spiegel, Hunt, & Dondershine, 1988)."
In my opinion, Hypnotic Ability, like any skill, can be developed by practically anyone.