Hypnosis acts, have you ever been involved?

[Expression_man]

My friend Liz stayed...she danced around and did all kinds of kooky stuff, and afterward she said she was really under and it was 'amazing' but she is a thespian...and you know thespians....

Yes, they're good at pretending/acting. All hypnosis starts with this, it's the only way to bypass the critical faculty. Of course it's more than that, it requires true belief as any doubt will sabotage any conscious effort you make.

If any of you weren't under hypnosis and still felt the need to look foolish, well that's your business. If you didn't want to do it then perhaps you shouldn't have. Hypnosis, in the sense described here, cannot make people do things against their own will.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

In my comedy juggling act, I call volunteers out of the audience and have them do all sorts of silly-looking and apparently dangerous things. They do it simply because I tell them to, and there's an expectation in this situation that I won't hurt them, and that they'll comply.

The difference with my act is that the point of the entertainment isn't based on the phony idea that my volunteers are under some sort of spell.

In these so-called hypnosis stage acts, they usually have the extra step of separating out bad subjects (simply people who aren't likely to play along).

 

[JonWhite]

Minor correction:

James Braid (deceased) wanted to call it "Ideism" aka "Idiomotor Response" for instance.

Braid actually wanted to rename it "monoideism" due to the narrowing of attention to the given idea/suggestion involved.

Only to add when I learnt hypnotherapy (qualified but currently non-practising) one of the standard definitions given was that "all hypnosis is self-hypnosis", which pretty much sums it up.

 

[MondoAtheist]

Hey Mondo, you know what I suggest? (waves arms and wiggly fingers in front of Mondo's eyes - you are feeling sleeepee) - find out where your nearest stage hypnotist show is next playing, and get yourself a ticket. When the hypnotist asks for volunteers, run to the stage (as best you can) and get up there. Do everything suggested and just go along with it all. You'll have a blast and can come back and post here to tell us all about it

That's a pretty good idea. I think I want to try that now. I would be pretty bummed if I weren't picked though, but I suppose watching it wouldn't be all that bad also.

 

[jon]

In my comedy juggling act, I call volunteers out of the audience and have them do all sorts of silly-looking and apparently dangerous things. They do it simply because I tell them to, and there's an expectation in this situation that I won't hurt them, and that they'll comply.

Practicing fire juggling (fairly ineptly) I was surprised that people would come up and do dangerous things, even when I asked them not to I never thought hair would burn all that quickly, until a long-haired women leant over a torch to grab a light for her cigarette

Maybe a tendency in certain contexts to trust that people won't hurt you (even when you shouldn't)?

 

[Kage]

That's a pretty good idea. I think I want to try that now. I would be pretty bummed if I weren't picked though, but I suppose watching it wouldn't be all that bad also.

You might also want to ask the guy (or girl) the same questions you have been asking us. Someone who does this for a living might be able to anser your question well or perhaps provide an experiential explanation.

You can also find yourself a taped induction. These cost money and I understand if you don't want to pay for something that you are sceptical about. If I knew an easy way to transfer the files I could get some to you. Taped inductions tend to be good, especially if you are willing to listen multiple times, given that your ability to go into trance improves with repitition.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I’m always amazed when people claim they or people they’ve hypnotized performed acts that they would not have done normally. The situation was anything but normal when they did these things! They had agreed to play an imaginative game called hypnosis. Couple this with the implicit subordinate role the subject is agreeing to take in the game and what you can get them to do while hypnotized seems much less impressive to me. Any potential embarrassment can be defused with the excuse ‘I was hypnotized’. Interesting that in court the defense ‘I was just following orders’ isn’t valid, especially since Milgram did his famous experiment.

The most interesting phenomena for me is the sensory hallucinations, for some subjects so real even their brain appears to believe them at some level (if PET scans are to be taken at face value). So I want to find out how the subject’s brain is generating the hallucination and how and at what level it’s distorting or ignoring the conflicting sensory feedback. Oh, and if 'hypnosis' is required for this to occur at all.

 

[Big Les]

I wonder how the disinhibiting effects of hypnosis compare with those of alcohol? The impaired/selective memory aspect for example.

 

[Spektator]

The only one I ever went to called about two dozen volunteers, including myself, to the stage and started his routine. He culled three quarters of them, including myself, before he started his "act". Apparently, stage hypnotists are good at recognizing who is suggestible.

I had a similar experience--was one of the volunteers, and was one of the first sent back to my seat as unsuitable. Also I once had a bit of emergency dental surgery done by a dentist who was not my usual one and who used hypnosis as anesthesia. He wound up giving me Novocaine anyway because no matter what he did, I still emphatically felt pain.

I think some people just have a higher threshold of pain than I do. You could skateboard over mine and not even notice.

 

[Mr. Scott]

My real experiences with hypnosis

OK, I've hypnotized, been hypnotized, and used self-hypnosis. I have no doubt at all that it is "real" but might disagree with some about what it actually is: what's bunk and what's genuine.

As a kid, I read a book about how to hypnotize, did it on my friend, and it worked. Of course, I can't be 100% sure if he was humoring me or if he was really in the classic hypnotic state, but I eventually concluded if they are indistinguishable, perhaps it doesn't matter.

When I was college age I asked to be hypnotized, and requested that I be led into a sexual fantasy and a hallucination (I was a horny kid). My friend did it with two other friends watching, and when I was told to have fantasy sex in bed in front of them, a curious thing happened. I really, really didn't want to embarass myself in front of my friends by having sex with a pillow while they watched. I knew exactly what was happening and never fantasized a girl in my bed. However, I felt compelled to act exactly as if I believed I was really doing it. I pleaded once with the hypnotist "please don't make me do this," but he insisted and I complied, although half-heartedly. Another thing he tried to make me do was hallucinate that there was a chicken in my lap. The result was that I merely imagined there was a chicken in my lap, but I never actually hallucinated it. However, like the sexual fantasy, I behaved as if the hallucination was astonishingly convincing.

So, my hypothesis is that hypnosis puts one in a very compelling state of obedience, but not a state where one is capable of vivid hallucinations, super strength, telepathy, super recall, or any such expansive capabilities.

I've also been told by my parents they were at a hypnosis show, and my father was made to do several humiliating acts before the audience and to forget them. He always professed no knowledge he performed any of the acts. One could suggest that he was too embarassed to admit he did them, though if he found them that embarassing, wouldn't he have refused to do them in the first place? I have yet to see a hypnosis show where a subject refused to do some humiliating act he was ordered to do by the hypnotist.

My self-hypnosis experiences are inconclusive except for being effective for relaxation.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I wonder how the disinhibiting effects of hypnosis compare with those of alcohol? The impaired/selective memory aspect for example.

If you're referring to suggested post-hypnotic amnesia then that can be reversed by the hypnotist telling the subject to remember, whether or not they are hypnotized. The suggestion appears to stop the subject trying to access the memories. This effect can be performed in the waking state, without the aid of hypnosis.

Alcohol if drunk in sufficient quantities may affect how strong memory is encoded. For the effects of alcohol on the brain:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh21-2/144.pdf

However, memory is also affected by attention and motivation. Depth of processing also makes a difference. Thus if you skim through a book you find boring with the TV on you’ll not remember much, but reading an interesting book in a quite room and taking notes should give you much better recall.

We are also much better at remembering visual scenes, which is how most of the memory techniques work. For example, the loci system places items you want to remember along a well known route to you, such as your journey to work. The more bizarre the images are the better you will remember them.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

OK, I've hypnotized, been hypnotized, and used self-hypnosis. I have no doubt at all that it is "real" but might disagree with some about what it actually is: what's bunk and what's genuine.

As a kid, I read a book about how to hypnotize, did it on my friend, and it worked. Of course, I can't be 100% sure if he was humoring me or if he was really in the classic hypnotic state, but I eventually concluded if they are indistinguishable, perhaps it doesn't matter.

When I was college age I asked to be hypnotized, and requested that I be led into a sexual fantasy and a hallucination (I was a horny kid). My friend did it with two other friends watching, and when I was told to have fantasy sex in bed in front of them, a curious thing happened. I really, really didn't want to embarass myself in front of my friends by having sex with a pillow while they watched. I knew exactly what was happening and never fantasized a girl in my bed. However, I felt compelled to act exactly as if I believed I was really doing it. I pleaded once with the hypnotist "please don't make me do this," but he insisted and I complied, although half-heartedly. Another thing he tried to make me do was hallucinate that there was a chicken in my lap. The result was that I merely imagined there was a chicken in my lap, but I never actually hallucinated it. However, like the sexual fantasy, I behaved as if the hallucination was astonishingly convincing.

So, my hypothesis is that hypnosis puts one in a very compelling state of obedience, but not a state where one is capable of vivid hallucinations, super strength, telepathy, super recall, or any such expansive capabilities.

I've also been told by my parents they were at a hypnosis show, and my father was made to do several humiliating acts before the audience and to forget them. He always professed no knowledge he performed any of the acts. One could suggest that he was too embarassed to admit he did them, though if he found them that embarassing, wouldn't he have refused to do them in the first place? I have yet to see a hypnosis show where a subject refused to do some humiliating act he was ordered to do by the hypnotist.

My self-hypnosis experiences are inconclusive except for being effective for relaxation.

Interesting recollection For those interested about hypnosis and sex, google ‘erotic hypnosis’ (Probably best not to do this at work). Hypnosis taps into our desire to be subordinate, which for some is a sexual turn on.

A really impressive example of obedience is soldiers behaving in a way that is likely to put them in serious danger because their commanding officer tells them to do it. I have yet to see a hypnotist do anything as spectacular as that.

 

[mollyblack]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the Penn (radio) show where he and Goudeau talked about it and Penn brought up that even after their researching it for Bullsh*t! they couldn't 100% discount it as being not real. So to speak.

I'm not sure when it was and I'm going through the archives trying to find it, but I know they discussed it and had a few callers who spoke of their experiences.

I've never been or tried to be or any of that so all my knowledge comes purely third hand. Though in high school (in the mid-80s) I knew a girl whose father made his living doing hypnotherapy to help people stop smoking and the like. I never really gave it much thought at the time since I think even then I was pretty sure I would not fall under too easily.

 

[porch]

Wow wow wow, I'm loving this thread.

I think it embodies several questions that are important to skeptics. It carries with it the very nature of belief, and the concept of free will.

A related issue is mind control. Again, I find it curious: Some will posit that mind control does not exist. It is a field of gray, so I tend to find such black-and-white statements to lack usefulness.

Anyone interested in this topic should check out rickross.com. I believe he is a very respected individual in the field of cults. He seems like a very reasoned and intelligent guy, and he argues for the existence of mind control. You'll find, though, that he does not adopt an either/or approach. He investigates groups, some that he calls cults, most of which he merely calls cult-like. Interesting that he studies: religious cults, fundamentalists, terrorists and extremist political groups, hate groups, multi-level marketing/pyramid sales schemes, pimp/prostitute relationships, and abusive relationships. It's all about control.

Also, please note that, IMO, those who dedicate a lot of time and effort to refuting the existence of mind control/brainwashing, are often themselves cultists or cult apologists. Here I am NOT saying "anyone who disbelieves in mind control is a cultist." I'm merely pointing out that it is a politicized issue, and one should bear that in mind when conducting research.

Luckily for the world, I am a principled person. I guarantee that, given the resources, I could take anyone here, whisk them away to my motivational camp, and within a few months, turn their minds to moosh. No matter what your beliefs in hypnosis/suggestion/mind control are. I would keep your mind full of chatter and chanting all day, not let you leave, never give you time alone to think, disrupt your sleep and deprive you of protein. That's the Moonies Full Meal Deal, right there. Not to mention physical torture. Where do we draw the line between mind control and other forms of control? One might argue that when a threat of, say, social ridicule, or physical harm are involved, that this is no longer mind control, yet when in dealing with self/perception/mind...where is the boundary?

Another interesting offshoot is law; Battered Wife Syndrome, whatever it's called when you get all Patty Hearst with your abductors, cult "deprogramming". Hell, even tobacco lawsuits sort of fit into this category. Who, legally, has control?

Thank you for indulging me, jref forums.

"I am not a number! I am an Elephant Man!",

`porch

 

[porch]

We are also much better at remembering visual scenes, which is how most of the memory techniques work. For example, the loci system places items you want to remember along a well known route to you, such as your journey to work. The more bizarre the images are the better you will remember them.

Tell me more about this please?

 

[Hypno-Rick]

Certified Hypnotherapist

Ok Guy's and Gal's...... I've been trying for two days to become a member of this site so I can join this conversation. I am a Certified Hypnotherapist and I would love to take this forum to answer all of your questions..... Reading through this thread there has been alot of the common misconceptions brought up. There have also been a few truths. I think at this point in time it would be easier for me to just ask those you have questions, and want a honest and straight forward answer, to post those below. I will try to check this thread a few times a day to get all of those questions answered. I'll leave you with these simple description of hypnosis. Hypnosis in it's simplest form can be described as the ability to concentrate on a single thought whereby excluding all others.... Everyone uses hypnosis everyday... Do you daydream or zone out? Do you drive down a road you travel alot, then notice that you are farther down the road then you remember or perhaps got home and don't remember the entire drive? Have you ever become emotional watching a movie. And last but not least.... Do you Sleep?? Everyone goes through the brain waves commonly perceived as hypnosis everyday........ Rick

 

[Jeff Corey]

Hypnorick don't know dick.

 

[Alan Heap]

i don't think much of hypnosis, as i think it's conformism rather than tapping into the subconscious (oh pls...) and as many hypnotists say "you can't make someone do what they don't want to". it just seems amazing because the orders given aren't exactly something you would ask anyone to do but you'd be surprised how easy it is to get someone to do something silly thats harmless. remember playing dare as kids? dare is a form of hypnotism!

also the hypnotist has a natural social rank enabling him to give the orders. he also asks for volunteers and people agree to take part, he's found people who are very likely to conform as they just did, so most of them are likely to follow silly, harmless yet entertaining commands.

i've been thinking about hypnotherapy more, and the more i think about it the more i think it can harm people with serious psychological problems as they won't be getting proper care or the conforming may even cause their condition to worsen. that being said, those with very minor specific psychological problems may benefit, but i mean very minor as these people just need someone to tell them to get on with it. even sigmund freud gave it up because of how ineffective it was.

then again i've been thinking about how psychology maybe harmful and con, think i even remember a study saying it worsened peoples problems, not that this one study and especially this specific study, would be enough to prove anything. but with conditions like depression being broken down into more physical causes and cures, perhaps it is all a con and a fraud but i still feel psychology does play a role as there are still many conditions which can't be treated physically and general support is also important.

this got me thinking even more though, where do you draw the line between con and/or fraud? it can be a very blurry line sometimes with no clear cut answers. i mean what do psychologists provide? they don't give you anything, you sit on a couch for X amount of time and you pay a fee. however they could be helping you with serious problems like war trauma, it's not something thats easy to measure. hypnotists merely order you to do something, is that worth paying for? where do you draw the line? is art fraud? paying up to many millions for a painting when the materials used to create it only cost 10s of dollars? a music album CD costs $20 but in your local PC store you can buy a 100 blank cd's for the same price. where do you draw the line?

excuse the way a move away from the topic, but i feel it relates strongly.

got to head back to my padded cell, now where did i put my straight jacket

 

[Alan Heap]

oops double post

 

[Hypno-Rick]

hypnosis

Hypnotists often say ""you can't make someone do what they don't want to". I don't like or use that wording. I prefer "You won't do anything that is morally or ethically against your beliefs". When you see the stage hypnotists having the people on stage do goofy things everyone always say's "Why would they do that?". Well the answer is, it wasn't against their moral or ethical belief. I have seen stage hypnotists make suggestions that one or more people on stage refused.

As far as your comment on working with those with severe mental issues. 99% of trained hypnotherapists will not work with clients who have severe mental issues.

Keep in mind. All hypnosis is self hypnosis. Anyone how wants to be hypnotized can be. Anyone who doesn't - Won't....