Hybrid Cars...

[pipelineaudio]

A hybrid Suzuki Samurai would be just a light enough type of base to make an awesome little 4WD

errr

if you dont need to carry anything heavier than an envelope of course

 

[pgwenthold]

Ford makes one:

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/escapehybrid/

Is it seriously true that the Escape gets better milage in the city than on the hwy? The ad claims 33 city/31 hwy.

My driving will be very easy (55 mph) hwy for long stretches. It is the type of drive that current cars are best suited for (I routinely get 28 mpg out of my Altima, whereas I used to only get 26 for the best case (that was mainly interstate)

 

[casebro]

The only thing that Hybrids do is recycle some of the energy that would be wasted by braking. Stop-and-go, or hilly country are their domain, not long commutes.

 

[varwoche]

not long commutes

That's not my experience. I get outstanding mpg on long commutes, better than short commutes.

 

[DavidJames]

The only thing that Hybrids do is recycle some of the energy that would be wasted by braking. Stop-and-go, or hilly country are their domain, not long commutes.

I drove 75 miles back and forth to Denver last weekend. approx. 20% city, 20% 55mph and 60% 75mph. I got 67 mpg in my Insight.

I suggest you do some more research or talk to more owners.

 

[DavidJames]

Is it seriously true that the Escape gets better milage in the city than on the hwy? The ad claims 33 city/31 hwy.

My driving will be very easy (55 mph) hwy for long stretches. It is the type of drive that current cars are best suited for (I routinely get 28 mpg out of my Altima, whereas I used to only get 26 for the best case (that was mainly interstate)

I can't speak for the Ford, only the Honda's. It would depend on how they achieve their efficiencies. In your situation I would expect about 45-47 mpg in my Civic.

I'm sure there are Escape user forums out there. Check them out, you should be able to find others with direct experience.

 

[casebro]

I drove 75 miles back and forth to Denver last weekend. approx. 20% city, 20% 55mph and 60% 75mph. I got 67 mpg in my Insight.

I suggest you do some more research or talk to more owners.

No hills within 75 miles of Denver? I got 70 mpg out of a Geo Metro 3 cylinder in '87 (+/-) Loaded with 3 full size adults.

Just exactly what do you think Hybrids do, other than regenerate? Suck energy out of the air somehow? So, regeneration can only add a fraction to your mileage, as compared to a small economy car. That fraction may become more important, what with the price of fuel going upwards fast...

 

[pipelineaudio]

in theory casebro is right about them being more efficient for stop and go, where they could potentially turn off, but in reality, the radio or the a/c is going or headlights

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

That's not even remotely true for the Honda's I purchased. For the Civic It's was about a $5k difference.

In your case, you're right. However, from Honda's official WWW site:

Honda Accord Sedan: $18,225
Honda Accord Hybrid Sedan: $30,990

I guess it's just what model you're looking at.

Still, $5K more for a car is still a bit out of my already low price range. Of course, a lot of the scaller, cheaper, compact cars already get great gas millage. Right now, I'm driving a 02 Neon (automatic, no frills), and I'm begining to think that it was way too much car for my needs.

 

[Hellbound]

Right now, I'm driving a 02 Neon (automatic, no frills), and I'm begining to think that it was way too much car for my needs.

Neons Unite!



Yeah, we have the same vehicle (same year, base model) but with a standard. Pretty easy on the gas mileage, but I'd still like something better. But when we priced it, I actually looked into how much a hybrid would save. Now, admittedly, all I looked at was the purchase price and fuel costs based on average MPG and how much I drove per year. With that rough calculation, I'd have had to keep the hybrid for 10 years for the costs to even out, and the hybrid was a smaller vehicle.

This was a few years ago, though. Of course, now gasoline engine cars getting 40mpg are being seen for low prices, and hybrids are dropping in price. I'd like to see a good comparison done today, cause I'll be looking at replacing my Neon in another year or so.

 

[azazal]

I'd like to see a good comparison done today, cause I'll be looking at replacing my Neon in another year or so.

Ask ang you shall recieve - Road and Track Hydrid showdown

 

[69dodge]

I drove 75 miles back and forth to Denver last weekend. approx. 20% city, 20% 55mph and 60% 75mph. I got 67 mpg in my Insight.

How do you measure something like that? It's only like 1.1 gallons.

I kept records for quite a while of how much gas I put in. Over about twelve thousand miles, I averaged 16 mpg on the nose. (It was 16.02, if I recall correctly.)

 

[Dragon]

The only thing that Hybrids do is recycle some of the energy that would be wasted by braking. Stop-and-go, or hilly country are their domain, not long commutes.

No - they also turn the petrol engine off when the car is stationary or coasting and the transmission system (on the Prius, don't know about the Honda) is more efficient than a conventional auto or manual gearbox.

 

[TonyL]

Just exactly what do you think Hybrids do, other than regenerate? Suck energy out of the air somehow? So, regeneration can only add a fraction to your mileage, as compared to a small economy car. That fraction may become more important, what with the price of fuel going upwards fast...

Combustion engines don't operate efficiently at all rpms, which is why standard vehicles get better milage on flat highways where the engine is usually running at a near optimal level. Hybrid vehicles can allow the engine to operate in the most efficient range for a larger percentage of the time by using the electric motors to handle the times when a power boost is needed. As a result, the car gets better milage. So no, it doesn't suck it out of the air, but it is a significant boost to overall efficiency in most standard driving conditions. (I know I never drive on a flat highway with no traffic that would cause me to have to slow down and speed up occasionally) Regeneration helps too, but it's not the main reason hybrids get better milage.

 

[DavidJames]

How do you measure something like that? It's only like 1.1 gallons.

I kept records for quite a while of how much gas I put in. Over about twelve thousand miles, I averaged 16 mpg on the nose. (It was 16.02, if I recall correctly.)

The car has a gauge which keep track as you drive. Then, every time I fill up I calculate the accuracy, it's never spot on, most of the time it's over states the mileage buy a couple of mpg's, I accounted for that in my number to / from Denver. The other numbers are based on historical tracking at fill ups.

yes, it's not a perfect measurement, but I always stop filling when it clicks off. I try to be consistent.

 

[DavidJames]

In your case, you're right. However, from Honda's official WWW site:

Honda Accord Sedan: $18,225
Honda Accord Hybrid Sedan: $30,990

I guess it's just what model you're looking at.

Still, $5K more for a car is still a bit out of my already low price range. Of course, a lot of the scaller, cheaper, compact cars already get great gas millage. Right now, I'm driving a 02 Neon (automatic, no frills), and I'm begining to think that it was way too much car for my needs.

Be sure to compare apples vs apples. The Accord Hybrid has a ton of options along with a high perfomance engine. Of course if you don't want the options, you must consider that.

My Civic hybrid came with almost of the options available (not as many as an Accord). But there weren't any I wouldn't have picked anyway. The difference was about $5k

 

[Geckko]

Everybody seems to be ignoring my post. So I thought I would add a little research.

I gleaned the following from manufacturer web sites:


Car Toyota Prius Honda Jazz
Capacity 1.5 hybrid 1.2 diesel
Power (bhp) 76 77
mpg city 60 42
mpg highway 51 60
mpg combined 55 55


So there you go.
Comparable power
same quoted combined mileage (Prius a more economical city drive, Jazz on the highway, the same on "average")
And where I come from diesel is cheaper, so the Jazz would be cheaper to run.

This confirms what I have read. At this point in time hybrid is mostly hype for the majority of drivers who do mixed mileage (and more expensive than a diesel alternative), a very poor choice for highway drivers and probably only a good emissions choice (but 50/50 cost economy call - because diesel is cheaper per litre) for genuine dedicated urban drivers.

 

[DavidJames]

This confirms what I have read. At this point in time hybrid is mostly hype for the majority of drivers who do mixed mileage (and more expensive than a diesel alternative), a very poor choice for highway drivers and probably only a good emissions choice (but 50/50 cost economy call - because diesel is cheaper per litre) for genuine dedicated urban drivers.

If I read the site correctly, the car is only available in the UK so it's not an option in the U.S., hence why I'm "ignoring your post", no harm meant.

 

[pipelineaudio]

weird law of diminishing returns I see by reading this thread

Its almost a no brainer to make a 400 horsepower 25 mpg motor these days

But a lower weight car with around 200 horsepower isnt getting 50mpg, its usually high 20's or low 30's

Now I see it takes going to an almost suicidal 77 hp to get around 55?

Seems like a 200 hp car with the added power of a turbo could get around the same with some tweaking and the ability to idle WAY lower than what they seem to now

 

[varwoche]

Everybody seems to be ignoring my post. So I thought I would add a little research.

I gleaned the following from manufacturer web sites:


Car Toyota Prius Honda Jazz
Capacity 1.5 hybrid 1.2 diesel
Power (bhp) 76 77
mpg city 60 42
mpg highway 51 60
mpg combined 55 55

These are unrealistic numbers resulting from unrealistic driving conditions. For instance, the Prius has to warmup before it achieves max efficiency. That's why it doesn't do as well on short commutes / first drive of the day.