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Hustler woo

I believe that the NIST report was limited in its scope. I want to know where the core went.

Are you proposing by the act of questioning that the core somehow disappeared?

Even if you believe in CD the core would be in the rubble. Unless you want to believe in some sort of disintegrating beam from space.
 
Do you believe Muslim Integrists do not exist? Or do you believe they are incapable of committing terrorist acts?

OK, define "Integrist." I'm dumb.

Of course they're capable of terrorism! The Israelis and Arabs have been duking it out with terrorism for decades.

Do I think their intelligence apparatus could infiltrate our government or get that lucky? No. I don't.
 
I don't speak Arabic, so I haven't personally heard the confessions you are referring to. Am I to assume you are fluent in Arabic? And did the translation correctly? (wink) (smiley's aren't working for me yet).
Here's one of his famous speeches, with video and transcription. Feel free to run it past an Arabic speaker. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/archive/archive?ArchiveId=7403

I think his calls for Jihad are a scam.
Who is he scamming?

I think he is still what he was, since the 70s; a CIA asset/agent.
That's a positive claim. Please present your evidence. You can post links now.

And Bush business partner.
Evidence? (See how this works?)

But you asked me what I think here!
So no, no proof. Evidence? there is plenty written about this.
When you make specific claims you will be asked to present your evidence. Plenty that is written is wrong, as CT websites make abundantly clear. You'll need to use reputable sources with verifiable information.
 
Another fallacy. Are these my only choices?

First of all, it's not discrimination. And it's got nothing to do with faith or race.

As I mentioned before, I have spent years reading incessantly about intelligence agencies and rogue networks.

I wonder if your belief that it was the Arabs might have to do with faith and race! Again, the perfect patsies; we've been conditioned for years to believe that Arabs are crazy, after all.

OK, what is it, then? You dodge and weave around the question, and try to turn it back without answering it.

Why do you not believe it was the hijackers?
 
There is plenty of evidence against such a relationship, and little for.

Wait, is it mere conspiracy theory that the CIA trained and funded the Mujahdeen as insurgents in Afghanistan from '79-'89, or so? They became the Taliban. And to an extent, Al Qaida. Isn't that fact? I've been reading about it since the early 80s!


Nope, that was the bin Laden family: the one that disowned Osama back in '93.

Ah, we were told he was the black sheep, so case closed. Come on.
 
I believe that the NIST report was limited in its scope.
I would highly suggest reading the legislation that provided the funding and genesis for the NIST report. It was called the National Construction Safety Team Act (PL 107-231). Congress was quite specific when it directed NIST to study the WTC collapse. Furthermore, the report was not intended entirely as an investigation, but also as a research project whose purpose was to make recommendations for making skyscrapers safer in the future.
I want to know where the core went.
I don't understand this statement. What are you referring to?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they only covered from the hit to the initiation of collapse.
Indeed. NIST was operating on the very valid and scientifically accurate assumption that the towers had no ability to arrest collapse once it began. Any public safety improvements generated through the NIST report would be aimed at preventing the collapse initiation state, not at designing buildings that are capable of stopping collapse once it begins.
I have not read the entire report, but have read both sides' analysis, and several key parts.
Here is where you and I differ. I have read the entirety of the NIST report, and the bulk of it sits in my office. I have also read the various criticisms of the NIST report, and I've found all of them to be intellectually vapid. They are the product of poor research, quote mining and misleading statements.
And no, I do not believe that airplanes, flown by islamic hijackers, attacked and destroyed the Pentagon and WTC 1, 2 and 7.
I apologize for not being clear in my question. I managed to disguise 3 seperate statements into one. For instance, do you believe that no airplanes were flown into the towers (remote or not)?
There, I said it. You can ask me what I think did happen, but that will come out in discussion.
Why not state it here for the record? You're entitled to have your opinion, but I'm going to criticize that opinion if I think it's not based on sound rationality and backed by evidence.
Consider the possibility that the deed was done, partly from within and partly from the outside, and our President was told who to blame. And consider that OBL could have Bin set up as the patsy this way also.
That sounds like an amazingly vague, yet convoluted answer. It appears that you're using the "God of the Gaps" fallacy. The evidence which points to bin Laden was actual evidence, but the evidence which fails to was fabricated by the FBI. If bin Laden has been set up, all of the evidence to convict him would be readily available.
The one thing that doesn't make sense is: why would Bush falsely blame a known CIA agent and his family business partner?! Surely Michael Moore could dig that info up! (Actually, it was already dug up; Moore borrowed the work of others there). So it must have Bin Bin, right?
While it is true that the Bush family has relations with the bin Laden family, you're claiming that Bush had specific dealings with Osama bin Laden himself. That's a demonstrably false statement.
(I know I'm going to get scolded for not providing proof. I wasn't there!)
Indeed you are. You're operating on a rather childish paradigm. In the same post, you've criticized NIST for failing to prove to you how the towers collapsed, and now you ask us to believe your opinions without a shred of proof. How is that logical? Where do you draw the line between what you require evidence to believe and what you believe because it fits with your world view?
 
Wait, is it mere conspiracy theory that the CIA trained and funded the Mujahdeen as insurgents in Afghanistan from '79-'89, or so? They became the Taliban. And to an extent, Al Qaida. Isn't that fact? I've been reading about it since the early 80s!

Ah, we were told he was the black sheep, so case closed. Come on.
No, "skeptical," that's not how it works. I strongly encourage you to read this post and the sources it links to, for an understanding of bin Laden's role in leading al Qaeda and in the 9/11 attacks. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2058407&postcount=357
 
When you make specific claims you will be asked to present your evidence. Plenty that is written is wrong, as CT websites make abundantly clear. You'll need to use reputable sources with verifiable information.

Right, and plenty that was fed us by the government and media (as you allude to when you say "plenty that is written is wrong"). So my original question when I popped in here was; are we here being skeptical about the official story also? Or are we using that theory (even though it has changed several times) as the "truth" which a bunch of hack "conspiracy theorists" are attacking?

Maybe the goal of this board should be to prove the official story, before the CT folks prove otherwise. That would be a more interesting race.
 
Maybe the goal of this board should be to prove the official story, before the CT folks prove otherwise. That would be a more interesting race.
That should be simple enough. I submit as proof of the NIST story the NCSTA Report. Please provide a report of equal magnitude whose conclusion opposes NIST's.
 
Wait, is it mere conspiracy theory that the CIA trained and funded the Mujahdeen as insurgents in Afghanistan from '79-'89, or so? They became the Taliban. And to an extent, Al Qaida. Isn't that fact? I've been reading about it since the early 80s!
Nope. Bin Laden was recruiting from Arab volunteers, not the Mujahideen.
 
Right, and plenty that was fed us by the government and media (as you allude to when you say "plenty that is written is wrong"). So my original question when I popped in here was; are we here being skeptical about the official story also? Or are we using that theory (even though it has changed several times) as the "truth" which a bunch of hack "conspiracy theorists" are attacking?

Maybe the goal of this board should be to prove the official story, before the CT folks prove otherwise. That would be a more interesting race.
The events, as described by the Commission Report, the FEMA report, and the NIST report are the status quo in this debate. That they are not questioned by the majority of professional in relevant fields attests to this. Therefore you, the claimant, have the burden of proof. Your burden is twofold; first, to show that the status quo is wrong and second, to show that your alternative is right.
 
Right, and plenty that was fed us by the government and media (as you allude to when you say "plenty that is written is wrong"). So my original question when I popped in here was; are we here being skeptical about the official story also? Or are we using that theory (even though it has changed several times) as the "truth" which a bunch of hack "conspiracy theorists" are attacking?

Maybe the goal of this board should be to prove the official story, before the CT folks prove otherwise. That would be a more interesting race.

Maybe you could actually tell us what you believe the "official story" is and what you disagree with.Just a summary, please include in it.

WTC 1
WTC 2
WTC 7
Flight 11
Flight 175
Flight 77
Flight 93
Al Quada.
UBL.

And anything esle you feel that is relevent.
 
OK, what is it, then? You dodge and weave around the question, and try to turn it back without answering it.

Why do you not believe it was the hijackers?

Well, shucks; I've been typing the whole time. You are an impatient lot, I see. I'm going to write this, then go for a beer. When I get back and read all your attacks and snide comments, which I'm fairly certain will take up a page or two here, I will have learned a lot about each of you, and what your thinking patterns are like. I doubt I'll have time to respond to everybody's requests for proof. Even though none have you have squat to prove the government's theory.

You asked me why I believe it wasn't the hijackers? Because I have read extensively about the hijackers, from investigative journalists who have tracked their comings and goings and activities. And mainstream reports as well. None of these are necessarily true. But, it's not necessarily true that they were Islamic Fundamentalists, willing to die for the cause, either. Again you asked me why I do not believe, so I'm telling you. There are several journalists out there writing about this stuff, folks. I'd say who, but you'll all tell me they have an agenda.

And here's the main reason I don't think it was the hijackers (at least not alone.) Remember the morning of 9/11, as the reporters and the firemen and the police officers in New York were reporting on all networks "huge explosions," multiple explosions, secondary devices? I remember it well. It's all on the web for us to watch again.

I remember my family watching, and the question that we all had was "how did they get bombs in the buildings, again? I know I'm not the only one who thought that same thing. Many friends remember thinking the same. Then the buildings fell. Then the word "pancake" became part of our vocabulary. Then we had vigils, and Bush gave some speeches, and we started talking about war.

Then we got anthrax.

See y'all!!! I'mma go git me a cold brewski!
 
Show us facts, proof, links we can see for ourselves. I'm sorry, but your word is not enough. You're a skeptic, you should know better.
 
Right, and plenty that was fed us by the government and media (as you allude to when you say "plenty that is written is wrong"). So my original question when I popped in here was; are we here being skeptical about the official story also? Or are we using that theory (even though it has changed several times) as the "truth" which a bunch of hack "conspiracy theorists" are attacking?

Maybe the goal of this board should be to prove the official story, before the CT folks prove otherwise. That would be a more interesting race.
As The Almond and Pardalis have pointed out, the "official story" is in writing. It's your job, if you disagree with aspects of it, to point out specifically what is wrong and to provide verifiable evidence for your claims. This is the last time I'll be saying this to you. If you continue as you've started, I'll give your posts a pass. The majority of CTs we see here are just JAQing off, and don't have a clue about what the "official story" actually says or how to counter it with evidence. I hope you're smarter than that.
 
scg , you ahve been given all the links needed as to why the official reports are valid and supported.

please read them, over and come back with your own analysis, and any specific questions you may have about them.


I dont expect you to be back until say... next week. as the NIST report alone will take up much of your time.
 
You asked me why I believe it wasn't the hijackers? Because I have read extensively about the hijackers, from investigative journalists who have tracked their comings and goings and activities. And mainstream reports as well. None of these are necessarily true. But, it's not necessarily true that they were Islamic Fundamentalists, willing to die for the cause, either. Again you asked me why I do not believe, so I'm telling you. There are several journalists out there writing about this stuff, folks. I'd say who, but you'll all tell me they have an agenda.

Well, just give it a try. Or are you not very certain yourself about their agenda?

And here's the main reason I don't think it was the hijackers (at least not alone.) Remember the morning of 9/11, as the reporters and the firemen and the police officers in New York were reporting on all networks "huge explosions," multiple explosions, secondary devices? I remember it well. It's all on the web for us to watch again.

I remember my family watching, and the question that we all had was "how did they get bombs in the buildings, again? I know I'm not the only one who thought that same thing. Many friends remember thinking the same. Then the buildings fell. Then the word "pancake" became part of our vocabulary. Then we had vigils, and Bush gave some speeches, and we started talking about war.

So, explosions = bombs. Got it.

This has been covered multiple times on this site. Go do a search on it.

When you get done, and figure out what is wrong with the above equation, we'll continue. But not until then.

Bye!
 

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