Huh? Terrorists???

[Drysdale]

Huh? There were dozens of warnings before 9/11 from all over the World that a major attack is coming.

All the key players were known but they were able to travel into the US nevertheless because a very lazy Government.

9/11 happened and can't happen the same way again and suspects also can't travel as easy as before, I highly suspect.

Of course a Terror-Attack can happen again - welcome to the real World.

So what's your fear about? Are you scared if you drive a car because car accidents happen every view minutes?

Thats my point. The govt had indeed grown complacent since the last attack on our soil by foreign terrorists was 8 years prior and was bungled. Not arguing with you on that. They had intel on that type attack since 1998.They were complacent by 2001, just as some politicians and individuals on this very thread are obviously complacent now. Understand?

Who says it cant happen again? Maybe not exactly the same way but who knows. And I'm not saying it will happen that way again. Just that another attack is certainly possible.

It's not necessarily a fear, it's caution. I am also cautious driving a car yes. And about other things. And I suspect you are as well or we would'nt be having this discussion. Do you sleep with your doors and windows open?
Do you just go hang out in bad neighborhoods in the inner cities out of boredom? And if not why? Are you scared?

It's about survival, looking for dangers and trying to avoid them, not fear. If you dont understand that I suspect you are'nt long for this world.

 

[brodski]

Of course I can support my claim: Al Qaida wasn't able to make another attack in the US yet.

they and groups inspired or connected with them have attacked my city twice, pay attention.

So where are all these Terror-Cells around the Globe?

Leeds London, Balli, Madrid. Check out the trials currently going on.

How many Terror-Cells did you capture in the US beside the hundred false alarms in the Media?

I have no connection with US security services.

By the way: Were the Guys connected to AQ who tried to make this terror-attack in the military base some weeks ago?

Which case are you talking about?

 

[Drysdale]

This is an incoherent mess.

If you cant understand my point maybe it's best to just move along yep.

 

[Oliver]

they and groups inspired or connected with them have attacked my city twice, pay attention.

Leeds London, Balli, Madrid. Check out the trials currently going on.

I have no connection with US security services.

Which case are you talking about?

Which city is that?

I was talking about "Fort Dix Six". So far I didn't heard any connection to AQ. Are you afraid of terrorism?

 

[Oliver]

Thats my point. The govt had indeed grown complacent since the last attack on our soil by foreign terrorists was 8 years prior and was bungled. Not arguing with you on that. They had intel on that type attack since 1998.They were complacent by 2001, just as some politicians and individuals on this very thread are obviously complacent now. Understand?

Who says it cant happen again? Maybe not exactly the same way but who knows. And I'm not saying it will happen that way again. Just that another attack is certainly possible.

It's not necessarily a fear, it's caution. I am also cautious driving a car yes. And about other things. And I suspect you are as well or we would'nt be having this discussion. Do you sleep with your doors and windows open?
Do you just go hang out in bad neighborhoods in the inner cities out of boredom? And if not why? Are you scared?

It's about survival, looking for dangers and trying to avoid them, not fear. If you dont understand that I suspect you are'nt long for this world.

I understand concerning complacence - and I understand your idea that it couldn't happen again in another way. My Point is that there is no reason to be scared or to believe Politicians who push fear. It's a little bit like being scared of Lightnings just because a Lightning killed your neighbor. These things happen - that's the way of the world. Even if it's new to Americans, it's no bigger threat than before 9/11. There is absolutely no reason to play the Fear-Card.

I never lock my doors and I also leave the windows open in summer. Of course there is some possibility that someone may break in, but since we don't have the second amendment, I doubt that an intruder would shoot me on the spot - it would be pretty much exaggerated to think so.

So concerning "survival" - are you affected by politicians who tell the Terror-Protection propaganda?

 

[brodski]

Which city is that?

I was talking about "Fort Dix Six". So far I didn't heard any connection to AQ. Are you afraid of terrorism?

I have allready answered both questions for your thread. if you persist in askign the same questions without bothering to read the answers I'm done with responding to you.
Believe whatever crap you like.

 

[Drysdale]

I understand concerning complacence - and I understand your idea that it couldn't happen again in another way. My Point is that there is no reason to be scared or to believe Politicians who push fear. It's a little bit like being scared of Lightnings just because a Lightning killed your neighbor. These things happen - that's the way of the world. Even if it's new to Americans, it's no bigger threat than before 9/11. There is absolutely no reason to play the Fear-Card.

I never lock my doors and I also leave the windows open in summer. Of course there is some possibility that someone may break in, but since we don't have the second amendment, I doubt that an intruder would shoot me on the spot - it would be pretty much exaggerated to think so.

So concerning "survival" - are you affected by politicians who tell the Terror-Protection propaganda?

I'm affected by the thousands of lives that were lost and the braggadocio of the terroroists threats to strike again.

 

[g4macdad]

Kent Hovind is Jewish?

Jesus was Jewish. Creationism is from the Old Testament of the Bible. What part are you confused about?

If you put down creationism, you are anti-Semitic.

 

[brodski]

Jesus was Jewish. Creationism is from the Old Testament of the Bible. What part are you confused about?

If you put down creationism, you are anti-Semitic.

No, disagreeing with someones religious views is not equal to hatred of a group.

Otherwise by definition, anyone who wasn't a religious jew would be anti-semitic.

 

[marksman]

Jesus was Jewish. Creationism is from the Old Testament of the Bible. What part are you confused about?

If you put down creationism, you are anti-Semitic.

I'm Jewish and I put down creationism all the time. Does that make me a self-hating Jew?!

(Most sects of Judaism reject creationism, by the way.)

 

[g4macdad]

I'm Jewish and I put down creationism all the time. Does that make me a self-hating Jew?!

(Most sects of Judaism reject creationism, by the way.)

You'll have to do better than that.

Please give examples of these majority, creationism rejecting Jewish sects.

I smell serious doo doo here. A Jewish sect that doesn't believe in God huh?

Until you do, my statement stands.

 

[Tony]

If you cant understand my point maybe it's best to just move along yep.

I agree. I prefer not to smoke the 30 crack rocks required to understand your point.

 

[marksman]

The three major sects of Judaism are the Orthodox, Conserative and Reform movements.

The Rabbinical Council of America an orgainzation fo Orthodox rabbis, has put out a statement saying that "evolutionary theory, properly understood, is not incompatible with belief in a Divine Creator, nor with the first 2 chapters of Genesis." (Not all Orthodox rabbis agree; some have stated that beliving in evolutionary history is apostasy; however, even they state that beliving in evolutionary biology is acceptable -- the distinction between the two is more complicated than it is worth explaining.)

The website of Conservative Judaism contains this statement, as a commentary on Genesis:
"The Torah's story of creation is not intended as a scientific treatise, worthy of equal time with Darwin's theory of evolution in the curriculum of our public schools."

And Reform Judaism easily accepts Darwinian Evolution over creationism. Here, the Union for Reform Judaism (the United States branch of the movement), is calling for intelligent design not to be taught in classrooms as science.

So, of the three major sects of Judaism, two (Conservative and Reform) accept evolution and one (Orthodox) is, at best, split on the issue.

Other, smaller sects exist, of which the most prominent is Reconstructionism. The other sects are even more liberal than that. They all, to my knowledge, accept evolution rather than creationism.

In fact, it might be more accurate to say there is not a single sect of Judaism that unequivocally rejects the theory of evolution in favor of creationism. (In truth, some subsects of Orthodoxy, notably the Chasidim, are creationists.)

 

[g4macdad]

The three major sects of Judaism are the Orthodox, Conserative and Reform movements.

The Rabbinical Council of America an orgainzation fo Orthodox rabbis, has put out a statement saying that "evolutionary theory, properly understood, is not incompatible with belief in a Divine Creator, nor with the first 2 chapters of Genesis." (Not all Orthodox rabbis agree; some have stated that beliving in evolutionary history is apostasy; however, even they state that beliving in evolutionary biology is acceptable -- the distinction between the two is more complicated than it is worth explaining.)

The website of Conservative Judaism contains this statement, as a commentary on Genesis:
"The Torah's story of creation is not intended as a scientific treatise, worthy of equal time with Darwin's theory of evolution in the curriculum of our public schools."

And Reform Judaism easily accepts Darwinian Evolution over creationism. Here, the Union for Reform Judaism (the United States branch of the movement), is calling for intelligent design not to be taught in classrooms as science.

So, of the three major sects of Judaism, two (Conservative and Reform) accept evolution and one (Orthodox) is, at best, split on the issue.

Other, smaller sects exist, of which the most prominent is Reconstructionism. The other sects are even more liberal than that. They all, to my knowledge, accept evolution rather than creationism.

In fact, it might be more accurate to say there is not a single sect of Judaism that unequivocally rejects the theory of evolution in favor of creationism. (In truth, some subsects of Orthodoxy, notably the Chasidim, are creationists.)

LOL, so you think God exists and worship him but he didn't create anything though. He just sits around and watches Oprah mostly and that makes him worthy of worship.

They are probably referring to micro-evolution. Not macro-evolution. Micro-evolution is a part of creationism. What are their alternative Scriptures to the orthodox ones? so I can set you straight.

The odor is getting worse.

 

[Drysdale]

I agree. I prefer not to smoke the 30 crack rocks required to understand your point.

Wow, still doing the crack rock jokes huh? Thought that phase ended about 10 years ago. Impressive.

 

[Tony]

Wow, still doing the crack rock jokes huh? Thought that phase ended about 10 years ago. Impressive.

Me too, but crack rock jokes have a proud tradition in the P&CE forum.

 

[Darth Rotor]

LOL, so you think God exists and worship him but he didn't create anything though. He just sits around and watches Oprah mostly and that makes him worthy of worship.

They are probably referring to micro-evolution. Not macro-evolution. Micro-evolution is a part of creationism. What are their alternative Scriptures to the orthodox ones? so I can set you straight.

The odor is getting worse.

1. He just set you straight. He also provided a nice, informative summary for the bystanders.

2. The odor you smell is that of the red herrings you tossed into your reply, and the strawmen burning.

DR

 

[marksman]

LOL, so you think God exists and worship him but he didn't create anything though.

What are you talking about. I told you that Judaism accepts the Theory of Evolution and you wanted evidence. I gave you the evidence. I hope you will accept the evidence and not deny it merely because you would like it to be otherwise.

They are probably refering to micro-evolution. Not macro-evolution.

Wrong. That's a distinction that only Intelligent Design theorists have adopted and no sect of Judaism of which I am aware has ever accepted Intelligent Design.

Edit: Besides, both the Conservative and Reform Judaism websites I linked specifically refer to an acceptance of Darwinian evolution, rather than ID or some form of "microevolution." Orthodox Judiasm is accepting of pretty much any theory of evolution (except, of course, for the subsects that are creationists).

What are their alternative Scriptures to the orthodox ones? so I can set you straight.

What alternative Scriptures? All sects of Judaism use the same "Scriptures": The Tanach (what you call the Old Testament), the Talmud (the oral traditions of Judaism) and the Mishnah (the commentaries of learned Rabbis after the Exile). (Well, Karaite Jews -- a really obscure sect -- don't use Talmud or Mishnah, but now we're getting really picky.)

Orthodox Jews who reject evolution and believe in the literal truth of the Torah (and that's only some of them), do so mostly because that's what their rabbis in the 18th century decreed. Maimonides, the most famous rabbinical scholar stated in the 12th century (when there was only one sect of Judaism) that the Torah is not to be read literally -- it contain lessons of morality, not lessons of science. When he said it, by the way, he was not setting forth anything particularly groundbreaking. It was an unremarkable statement in its time because it's been the way most Jews have viewed the Torah since time immemorial.

As for what I personally believe, I believe that God created the universe with physical laws. I believe He gave Jews the Tanach with moral lessons to help us in our daily lives. I believe He may may have given other people other moral guidance in other forms. I believe he gave us the capacity for rational thought so that we might better understand His creation in a rational manner. That's what I believe, though I think it irrelevant to the current discussion.

 

[g4macdad]

1. He just set you straight. He also provided a nice, informative summary for the bystanders.

2. The odor you smell is that of the red herrings you tossed into your reply, and the strawmen burning.

DR

So what do they believe God has done exactly?

It is a nice summary though.

Summary of nonsense.

 

[marksman]

Summary of nonsense.

Whether you think it nonsense or not really doesn't matter to me. I'm not trying to convert you or anybody to Judaism.

But I at least would like you to acknowledge that I substantiated the specific statement on which you challenged me: "Most sects of Judaism reject creationism"