HPV vaccine

[foophil]

My wife works at a major hospital in my area and came home the other day telling me about how she heard from another person there that a new study on the HPV vaccine came out. This study stated something along the lines that the vaccine helps to prevent the strains of HPV that cause cancer, but does nothing to the other strains which were thought to be non-harmful (this part is true). According to the study, there apparently was some sort of symbiosis between all the strains, and now that some are prevented from living in us, the others have turned out to be harmful.

Something like that.... Anyways, I've been unable to confirm anything like this. I'm one of the more vocal proponents in my crowd for getting vaccinated (I'm a person with an auto-immune disease that, even though I'm vaccinated myself, I have a higher risk of catching stuff). Nonsense like the stuff the anti-vac crowd spews out really bothers me, and I like to crush their silly articles and studies with actual facts. But I can't even find info on this one using my Google-Fu.

Has anyone heard this one before? My search here pulled up nothing on HPV. It is probably on some anti-vac site that I have so far been unwilling to visit....

 

[casebro]

.... and now that some are prevented from living in us, the others have turned out to be harmful.....

I don't see that. There would have to be some advantage for the formerly harmless to become harmful to the host.

But I could see that the formerly harmless might randomly mutate into a more harmful strain that the vaccine wouldn't work on. But taking the vaccine wouldn't have any effect on that happening.

 

[blutoski]

My wife works at a major hospital in my area and came home the other day telling me about how she heard from another person there that a new study on the HPV vaccine came out. This study stated something along the lines that the vaccine helps to prevent the strains of HPV that cause cancer, but does nothing to the other strains which were thought to be non-harmful (this part is true). According to the study, there apparently was some sort of symbiosis between all the strains, and now that some are prevented from living in us, the others have turned out to be harmful.

Something like that.... Anyways, I've been unable to confirm anything like this. I'm one of the more vocal proponents in my crowd for getting vaccinated (I'm a person with an auto-immune disease that, even though I'm vaccinated myself, I have a higher risk of catching stuff). Nonsense like the stuff the anti-vac crowd spews out really bothers me, and I like to crush their silly articles and studies with actual facts. But I can't even find info on this one using my Google-Fu.

Has anyone heard this one before? My search here pulled up nothing on HPV. It is probably on some anti-vac site that I have so far been unwilling to visit....

I'm not sure I understand the claim exactly...

It sounds like they believe HPV vaccine shifted the viral footprint from a mostly harmless strain to a harmful strain?

That doesn't make sense for a couple of reasons.

1) HPV was introduced as a response to the carcinogenic risk, so the timing is reversed.

2) I think they're confusing antivirals/vaccines with antibiotics? Viral infections are not the same as our natural flora of bacteria - there is no 'protective healthy' viral load. Relevant fact: bacteria live outside the body whereas viruses live inside our cells and destroy them as part of their life cycle.

 

[Giordano]

My wife heard that HPV vaccine turns you gay! Or something like that (maybe it turns you gray- I don't know).

I haven't found the original article, study or even an anti-vax site that claims this, but I will post that claim here anyway.

Is it true!

My point- no one here appears to have yet heard of the claim made in the OP, nor does it make sense from current understanding of the biology. If there is truly a study to which you can reference us, I would very much appreciate it. I want the real facts. Maybe until then these ambiguous undocumented claims hurt more than help. Thanks!

 

[ehcks]

Even if true, this just means we need to make an HPV vaccine that works on all the strains, including the little annoying ones that cause foot and hand warts.

 

[ThunderChunky]

^If the type that causes cancer prevents other types from causing cancer, I still don't want it infecting me.

 

[Roboramma]

My point- no one here appears to have yet heard of the claim made in the OP, nor does it make sense from current understanding of the biology. If there is truly a study to which you can reference us, I would very much appreciate it. I want the real facts. Maybe until then these ambiguous undocumented claims hurt more than help. Thanks!

The OP heard an ambiguous claim and tried to do some research to see if it is true or not. He was unable to come up with anything, so posted here to see if anyone else had information to share.

I don't see a problem with that. If, for instance, someone here said "Oh, you're probably talking about this study" and referenced it, we might find that the conclusions are very different from those implied in the original story. He could then go back to his wife and explain the issue. Those of us who hear the same story (people post this sort of thing on facebook all the time, for instance) could link to the actual study and explain the reality of the situation. I don't see any downsides here.

Now, that hasn't happened because, so far, no one knows if any such study actually exists. That's also information. It isn't conclusive, but it suggests that the story may be made up, or simply a misunderstanding of how the HPV vaccine actually works. Again, that's valuable information as the next time someone brings this up the best thing to say is probably "I'd heard that before and tried to research it, but haven't found anything. Where did you hear this?" Or something like that, asking for references.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I heard that HPV vaccines turns little girls into nymphomaniacs.

 

[Dr. Imago]

Well, there is still a risk of other STDs, unwanted pregnancy, and those vaccinated should still use protection, a theme sometimes missed on teenagers.

~Dr. Imago

 

[blutoski]

Now, that hasn't happened because, so far, no one knows if any such study actually exists. That's also information. It isn't conclusive, but it suggests that the story may be made up, or simply a misunderstanding of how the HPV vaccine actually works. Again, that's valuable information as the next time someone brings this up the best thing to say is probably "I'd heard that before and tried to research it, but haven't found anything. Where did you hear this?" Or something like that, asking for references.

I think that's the next stage for the OP, yeah... "OK, this isn't anywhere in the literature... I think you misunderstood a different study. What study are you talking about, I am happy to examine that, but in the meantime it looks like no, it's not true."

If I had to put my nickel down, I think the OP's friend is conflating a real study on HPV strains being more/less harmful with all the literature on antibiotic disruption of bowel bacterial flora.

 

[Giordano]

I am even worse. I am have seen lots of self proclaimed skeptics here post a questionable allusion "seeking" a refutation but really intending to cause doubt and to establish the allusion in people's consciousness (and on Google), The OP coming from a relative newbee increased my suspicion.

I just noticed that Foophil has other posts, and is probably very sincere. My sincere apologies- my only defense is that I am paranoid and untrusting about everything. But how can we refute the allusion if the poster is not even certain what exactly it is? How can we provide information if the poster has looked, and cannot find a study or publication that makes any claim like the one posted? I thought I was polite when I simply asked the poster to come back when he has more information to help us.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Well, there is still a risk of other STDs, unwanted pregnancy, and those vaccinated should still use protection, a theme sometimes missed on teenagers.

~Dr. Imago

I understand your point, but don't see how it needs to apply to the HPV vaccine. My pediatrician never mentioned "sex" or "sexually transmitted" when explaining the vaccine. He simply said it was a vaccine that can prevent a particular cancer. He mentioned that it is best to start the course between the ages of __ and __. He gave me a more detailed disclosure to sign but there was no reason for my kid to know it was a sexually transmitted disease. Of course, I told my kid all about it and why some people don't get it on the way home from the doctor, but that is just me. Not necessary to the child getting the vaccine.

 

[foophil]

My wife heard that HPV vaccine turns you gay! Or something like that (maybe it turns you gray- I don't know).

I haven't found the original article, study or even an anti-vax site that claims this, but I will post that claim here anyway.

Is it true!

My point- no one here appears to have yet heard of the claim made in the OP, nor does it make sense from current understanding of the biology. If there is truly a study to which you can reference us, I would very much appreciate it. I want the real facts. Maybe until then these ambiguous undocumented claims hurt more than help. Thanks!

Nobody here has made that claim. In fact, all our goals here so far have been to refute what was heard outside here. Thanks for trying though.

The OP heard an ambiguous claim and tried to do some research to see if it is true or not. He was unable to come up with anything, so posted here to see if anyone else had information to share.

I don't see a problem with that. If, for instance, someone here said "Oh, you're probably talking about this study" and referenced it, we might find that the conclusions are very different from those implied in the original story. He could then go back to his wife and explain the issue. Those of us who hear the same story (people post this sort of thing on facebook all the time, for instance) could link to the actual study and explain the reality of the situation. I don't see any downsides here.

Now, that hasn't happened because, so far, no one knows if any such study actually exists. That's also information. It isn't conclusive, but it suggests that the story may be made up, or simply a misunderstanding of how the HPV vaccine actually works. Again, that's valuable information as the next time someone brings this up the best thing to say is probably "I'd heard that before and tried to research it, but haven't found anything. Where did you hear this?" Or something like that, asking for references.

This was my intention. Thanks for clarifying it before I could.

 

[foophil]

I am even worse. I am have seen lots of self proclaimed skeptics here post a questionable allusion "seeking" a refutation but really intending to cause doubt and to establish the allusion in people's consciousness (and on Google), The OP coming from a relative newbee increased my suspicion.

I just noticed that Foophil has other posts, and is probably very sincere. My sincere apologies- my only defense is that I am paranoid and untrusting about everything. But how can we refute the allusion if the poster is not even certain what exactly it is? How can we provide information if the poster has looked, and cannot find a study or publication that makes any claim like the one posted? I thought I was polite when I simply asked the poster to come back when he has more information to help us.

Apology honestly accepted. I understand the skeptism what with past posters doing exactly what you say. I will hopefully not dissapoint (except for my damn typos!).

 

[Dr. Imago]

I understand your point, but don't see how it needs to apply to the HPV vaccine. My pediatrician never mentioned "sex" or "sexually transmitted" when explaining the vaccine. He simply said it was a vaccine that can prevent a particular cancer. He mentioned that it is best to start the course between the ages of __ and __. He gave me a more detailed disclosure to sign but there was no reason for my kid to know it was a sexually transmitted disease. Of course, I told my kid all about it and why some people don't get it on the way home from the doctor, but that is just me. Not necessary to the child getting the vaccine.

You are far ahead of most parents, I surmise.

~Dr. Imago

 

[Estellea]

My wife works at a major hospital in my area and came home the other day telling me about how she heard from another person there that a new study on the HPV vaccine came out. This study stated something along the lines that the vaccine helps to prevent the strains of HPV that cause cancer, but does nothing to the other strains which were thought to be non-harmful (this part is true). According to the study, there apparently was some sort of symbiosis between all the strains, and now that some are prevented from living in us, the others have turned out to be harmful.

Something like that.... Anyways, I've been unable to confirm anything like this. I'm one of the more vocal proponents in my crowd for getting vaccinated (I'm a person with an auto-immune disease that, even though I'm vaccinated myself, I have a higher risk of catching stuff). Nonsense like the stuff the anti-vac crowd spews out really bothers me, and I like to crush their silly articles and studies with actual facts. But I can't even find info on this one using my Google-Fu.

Has anyone heard this one before? My search here pulled up nothing on HPV. It is probably on some anti-vac site that I have so far been unwilling to visit....

Your wife should have asked for a citation as extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence and all of that. Anyway, there are over 90 serotypes of HPV with only 2 strains responsible for the majority of cervical cancers. Gardasil covers for strains 6, 11, 16 and 18; 6 and 11 are responsible for most genital warts and 11 while 16 and 18 are responsible for most cervical cancers. The use of this vaccine has reduced genital wart infections and also abnormal PAP smears significantly.


No one is paying attention to the anti-vaxx nutters with regards to autism and what have you any longer so their newish target is HPV vaccines. What your wife heard is a typical scientifically-ignorant anti-vaxx rant that probably has to do with serotype replacement. This is a phenomenon that can occur when there are several serotypes of a pathogen and some are removed by say vaccination. The lesser prevalent (and less infectious/invasive) strains will become more predominant. There is a possibility of this occuring with HPV vaccination but it isn't that other strains are not harmful then become so (with the exception of antibiotic resistance but that isn't the case here), it's just that they become more prevalent and in fact may be less pathogenic and harmful.

The short of it is that what your wife heard wasn't accurate at all and HPV vaccination is very safe although the long term benefits are not known yet due to the very delayed onset (decades) of cervical/oral/anal cancers but have reduced abnormal cervical lesions and genital warts significantly.

Este

 

[catsmate]

Even if true, this just means we need to make an HPV vaccine that works on all the strains, including the little annoying ones that cause foot and hand warts.

New vaccines, covering more HPV strains, are being worked on. Biology takes time............
First gen vaccine (Cervarix) only stopped HPV16 and HPV18. Second generation (Gardasil/Silgard) adds protection against HPV6 and HPV11.

Research continues, split in two directions; improving coverage of HPV strains (including the possibility of a new approach that might protect against all of them) and 'therapeutic' vaccines that can effect existing tumours. One of these (MEL-1) is in clinical trials.

Well, there is still a risk of other STDs, unwanted pregnancy, and those vaccinated should still use protection, a theme sometimes missed on teenagers.

~Dr. Imago

Yes, proper sex education.
Or some form of compulsory chastity device.

 

[sloinker]

I read an article recently that spoke about the two available vaccines. Since there are many strains of the HPV the vaccines cannot cover them all. Both vaccines cover the most prevalent but have differences beyond that. Maybe the op's wife was confused and related it poorly.

 

[foophil]

At this point, I'm sure it was just the usual nonsense of some anti-vax article being printed with incorrect information in it, then that being spewed out in all the normal places, followed by the misinformation in it being only partially commited to memory by someone, and finally that information ending up in my wife's unbelieving ears. She came to me first because I'm usually a little more skeptical about this stuff than she is (and willing to try and look this stuff up). Plus she trusts my opinion over her random co-workers thankfully.

Now that we are expecting our first child, we are hearing all sorts of completely unfounded stuff put on us as fact. People seem so offended when I ask them for evidence too. Weird....

 

[Dr. Keith]

You are far ahead of most parents, I surmise.

Thanks.

It amazes me how parents can be so worried about their kids doing the same things they did.

I expect my kids to eventually have sex, get married, and maybe even have kids. I hope that is the order, but won't be too put out if the kids precede the marriage. I would actually be a bit terrified if the marriage preceded the sex. But I am in the minority there according to some informal polling.

Now that we are expecting our first child, we are hearing all sorts of completely unfounded stuff put on us as fact. People seem so offended when I ask them for evidence too. Weird....

Evidence causes cancer in newborns, I wouldn't be asking for that if I were you.