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Hpathy: topic to watch this week

p.s. I've saved a copy already in case they get Stalin's airbrush out of its little lacquered box again.
 
Yes, and that will be you won't it.

Sorry about the lack of replies to your other thread.

Perhaps you should go and waste your time elsewhere. You seem to have endless amounts to waste and I wonder if you ever do any work anyway.

Which poor animals are you going to try and kill off now with all your allopathic rubbish?

At least my dog is totally healthy and I have only ever treated him with homeopathic remedies. He is much better for it.
 
It's a bit pathetic the way Naturalhealth doesn't have any answers at all to any of the points put in these threads, and just resorts to sniping ad-homs and boring repetitions of "it works".

I don't suppose you'd care actually to think about the issues some time, sweetheart?

Rolfe.
 
Pity you don't manage to draw some of the obvoius conclusions then, isn't it.

BSM has wrapped you in knots on the provings issue, and you haven't even begun to deal with it. Or maybe you're still thinking about it?

Rolfe.
 
I wonder if the homeopathic remedies they give pregnant women has any ethanol in it. I also am curious, if Homeoskeptic could reply, as to how and if homeopaths track their patients, generally. Is there long term follow up? How are records kept?

Thanks,

Quasi
 
Quasi said:
I wonder if the homeopathic remedies they give pregnant women has any ethanol in it. I also am curious, if Homeoskeptic could reply, as to how and if homeopaths track their patients, generally. Is there long term follow up? How are records kept?

Thanks,

Quasi
Click to expand...
The long term follow-up is exactly the same as the treatment i.e. nothing. In respect of the records, as these are anecdotal, over time the number of records is likely to increase exponentially.
 
"Since I don't believe teh rmedies do anything at all this is not
pereceived by me to be a real risk, ..."

Actually, what you believe is that there is no risk at all, right?

"...but given that homeopaths do believe the remedies have real effects then abortion could be a real consequence."

Actually, what you believe is that an abortion couldn't possibly be the consequence of an abortion, right?
 
Bowser said:
"Since I don't believe teh rmedies do anything at all this is not
pereceived by me to be a real risk, ..."

Actually, what you believe is that there is no risk at all, right?

I was careful not to be too adamant on this so I would not say no risk at all. If you read provings you see evidence of seriously pathological psychological states being induced in the participants, probably self-created by the rather weird cult-like goings on that surround these events and I am prepared to believe that the stress of such a process could feasibly affect the participants adversely, including inducing abortion. The odds are low, but read some provings and see just how weird these people get.

Remember though, I am allowing for, "Woo-woo, behold the mysterious power of the psychosomatic effect of the placebo" not "Woo-woo, behold the mysterious power of the real physical effect of the remedy"

"...but given that homeopaths do believe the remedies have real effects then abortion could be a real consequence."

Actually, what you believe is that an abortion couldn't possibly be the consequence of an abortion, right?

Very funny :D
Click to expand...

I've only just realised that yet another cultic aspect of homeopathy is the methodology of provings. A group of people shut themselves away and gaze inwardly for day after day and record every sniffle, fart and bad dream.
 
Homeoskeptic said:
At least my dog is totally healthy and I have only ever treated him with homeopathic remedies. He is much better for it.
Click to expand...

I agree, my dog was healthy for YEARS and the only medicine we ever gave him during that time was water too.
 
Glad you found it so entertaining, BSM. I of course meant that you wouldn't consider it possible for an abortion to be the result of a remedy... :D brainfart time.

But please explain, when you say you don't believe the remedies "do anything at all", how can we accept your statement that you nevertheless believe there could be a risk because, afterall, "seriously pathological psychological states" have been reported to be induced. Your statements contradict themselves.

And...since you don't consider it possible for an abortion to be the result of a remedy...you need a real life, right? I mean, what is there worth arguing about in that case?
 
Bowser said:

But please explain, when you say you don't believe the remedies "do anything at all", how can we accept your statement that you nevertheless believe there could be a risk because, afterall, "seriously pathological psychological states" have been reported to be induced. Your statements contradict themselves.

No contradiction. This whole debate turns on whether homeopahic remedies have real effects independent of placebo effect. All of the critics can accept that the circumstances of taking a hoomeopathic remedy may induce a placebo effect. We don't know how strong that effect might be, but the homeopaths are absolutely adamant that the remedies themselves have an effect.

In the present context, I am saying that the circumstances of being part of a proving induce weird psychology in participants and I am leaving the door open to the possibility that physical psychosomatic consequences including abortion might arise. I have no idea how strong that possibility is, 1in a hundred, 1 in a thousand, 1 in a billion, but I cannot logically totally exclude the possibility.

And...since you don't consider it possible for an abortion to be the result of a remedy...you need a real life, right? I mean, what is there worth arguing about in that case?

Don't understand this sentence, but I think you are querying this arguing over hypotheticals.

The reason why the hypotheticals matter is because of doublethink on the part of homeopaths. I don't think homeopathy does anything beyond placebo effect. They say it does. They also say it is 100% safe, yet they also claim the existence of 'aggravations' caused by remedies. In arguing by use of hypotheticals that take their claims at face value we show the internal contradictions of homeopathy, which is a useful end in itself. It is not an attempt to demonstrate whether homeopathy works and/or can have dangerous effects.
Click to expand...
 
But BSM, it doesn't matter what the homeopaths say or think if you know in your heart that the remedies "don't do anything at all". By your own admissions, you simply have no reason to worry about it! And yet you do, and you do, and you do. Go figure! Aren't you worried about the psycosomatic toll this could take on your life??? :p
 
Bowser said:
But BSM, it doesn't matter what the homeopaths say or think if you know in your heart that the remedies "don't do anything at all". By your own admissions, you simply have no reason to worry about it!
Click to expand...
In terms of biological effect beyond placebo, homeopathy does nothing. In terms of offering false hope, conning people out of their hard-earned money and, in extreme cases, luring them away from real medicine, homeopathy does a great deal.
 
Bowser said:
But BSM, it doesn't matter what the homeopaths say or think if you know in your heart that the remedies "don't do anything at all". By your own admissions, you simply have no reason to worry about it! And yet you do, and you do, and you do. Go figure! Aren't you worried about the psycosomatic toll this could take on your life??? :p
Click to expand...

I thought so. Well, welcome to the board.


Would you like to make your case for homeopathy so we can get past the preamble? How about you deal with any of the substantive issues that have arisen on the various threads on homeopathy. Here's a good one for you to start on;

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40064
 
Bowser said:
But BSM, it doesn't matter what the homeopaths say or think if you know in your heart that the remedies "don't do anything at all". By your own admissions, you simply have no reason to worry about it!
Click to expand...

You will be well aware as a homeopath why it matters greatly that homeopathy is a fraud perpetrated on sick people at cost to their pocket and potential detrement to their wellbeing, while also costing me money as a taxpayer forced to fund homeopathic hospitals and the ever increasing need to refute the mad asserions of the alt med crowd.
 
Bowser said:
But BSM, it doesn't matter what the homeopaths say or think if you know in your heart that the remedies "don't do anything at all". By your own admissions, you simply have no reason to worry about it! And yet you do, and you do, and you do. Go figure! Aren't you worried about the psycosomatic toll this could take on your life??? :p
Click to expand...

I think the point is that it exposes logical inconsistancies in the homeopathic viewpoint. If we take the homeopathic pov then Homeopathic remedies can cause aggravations, upto and including abortion. These aggravations are acknowledged to be largely unpredictable, yet homeopaths see no problem in treating pregnant ladies. Of course the real situation is that the water (lactose pill, whatever) is harmless so there is no danger. Yet to maintain their position homeopaths have to acknowledge the potential harm to pregnant ladies, by their own logic. Yet they refuse to do so and continue to treat pregnant ladies. Curious is it not. Any suggestions as to why preganant ladies (and their foetus) are not affected by homeopathic aggravations???
 
Bowser said:
But BSM, it doesn't matter what the homeopaths say or think if you know in your heart that the remedies "don't do anything at all". By your own admissions, you simply have no reason to worry about it! And yet you do, and you do, and you do. Go figure! Aren't you worried about the psycosomatic toll this could take on your life??? :p
Click to expand...

I tried to prove a rmedy by massivly overdoseing for a susatined peroid. No effect noted.
 
Why don't homeopaths just tell it like it is: We don't know how it works, when it works, why it works, or much of anything about it. But some magical influence makes it do just the right thing at the right time, and never anything bad, even though these two results are apparently contradictory.

Really, why bother with all the other rationalizations?

~~ Paul
 
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