How will History judge Tony Blair?

[NWO Sentryman]

How do you think Tony Blair will be looked on by historians? Personally, he will be thought of as a disaster and as a more polarising figure than Thatcher.

 

[Giz]

Assuming a sane centrist future, one of the best and most statesmanlike of the Labour leaders.

I doubt history will be as kind Corbyn (if it even remembers him).

 

[MikeG]

I reckon he'll be remembered for a couple of monumentally stupid decisions, and for squandering his massive mandate and goodwill with a turgid first term. Which is such a pity, because he should be remembered for taking a rabble and turning into an electable party of government, for excising the ludicrous Clause 4 of the LP constitution, and for his pivotal part in the Irish peace process. It didn't help that he spent his much of his time in office being undermined and plotted against by his Chancellor.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Assuming a sane centrist future, one of the best and most statesmanlike of the Labour leaders.

I doubt history will be as kind Corbyn (if it even remembers him).

So to quote Jean Marie Le Pen, I guess the Iraq War and its aftermath will "just be minor details of history"?

 

[welshdean]

As a war criminal, hopefully.

 

[Belgian thought]

As a war criminal, hopefully.

The above.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

The above.

And I'm still surprised that Blair has avid defenders who take the "other than iraq Blair was great!" Line. It's like saying "other than Libya Sarkozy was a good president!"

 

[The Don]

And I'm still surprised that Blair has avid defenders who take the "other than iraq Blair was great!" Line. It's like saying "other than Libya Sarkozy was a good president!"

Why are you surprised ?

IMO I think that it's entirely fair to point out that as a "right wing" Labour leader, he oversaw successive election victories and managed to reverse many of the worst aspects of Conservative cuts. It also IMO meant that the next Conservative prime minister was a centreist who tried to further a liberal social agenda.

That said, there are two things I cannot forgive him for, his unwavering (and seemingly unthinking) support for George W Bush in Iraq and his insistence that PFI was a good idea.

I suppose it depends on whether the latter is so bad that it completely overshadows the former. There are commentators more knowledgeable than I who insist that Blair in effect had little or no choice in following Bush..

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Why are you surprised ?

IMO I think that it's entirely fair to point out that as a "right wing" Labour leader, he oversaw successive election victories and managed to reverse many of the worst aspects of Conservative cuts. It also IMO meant that the next Conservative prime minister was a centreist who tried to further a liberal social agenda.

That said, there are two things I cannot forgive him for, his unwavering (and seemingly unthinking) support for George W Bush in Iraq and his insistence that PFI was a good idea.

I suppose it depends on whether the latter is so bad that it completely overshadows the former. There are commentators more knowledgeable than I who insist that Blair in effect had little or no choice in following Bush..

As Jonathan Pie put it, Blair succeeded by making Labour a right wing party, and after his iraq war adventure, had the sheer nerve to paint himself as a peace envoy and managing to Taint Europe in the process for many British voters. It's not for nothing he's called a "red tory".

As for Cameron's "centrism", I guess the piglover tripling tuition fees and breaking the Lib Dems was an acceptable price.

 

[arthwollipot]

Tony Blair was the one who said "When you're back's against the wall, you've got to turn around and take a big step forward."

That's how I'll always remember him.

 

[The Don]

As for Cameron's "centrism", I guess the piglover tripling tuition fees and breaking the Lib Dems was an acceptable price.

Compared to his Conservative Party colleagues who didn't even support gay marriage, yes he was centreist.

 

[Ian Osborne]

That said, there are two things I cannot forgive him for, his unwavering (and seemingly unthinking) support for George W Bush in Iraq and his insistence that PFI was a good idea.

This. The Blair years weren't all failure. We have him to thank for the minimum wage and the smoking ban, both of which have proved great successes. Likewise, as has been mentioned before, the Good Friday Agreement, ending 30 years of conflict. Tightening rail regulation and limiting fare increases was a step in the right direction too, but it's a pity he couldn't reverse the disastrous Major privatisation.

But Iraq and PFI will forever overshadow his successes.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Compared to his Conservative Party colleagues who didn't even support gay marriage, yes he was centreist.

Having a few nice social policies cannot overshadow just how much of a disaster The Coalition/Cameron were. And Cameron already showed how spineless he was towards his colleagues with the Referendum.

Centrism: Gay Marriage, but with privatised healthcare!

 

[The Don]

Having a few nice social policies cannot overshadow just how much of a disaster The Coalition/Cameron were.

I don't think I ever claimed that Cameron was a great, or even good PM merely that he was from the left of his party.

And Cameron already showed how spineless he was towards his colleagues with the Referendum.

Centrism: Gay Marriage, but with privatised healthcare!

I guess we'll have an opportunity to see what the Conservative Party is like when it's led by someone from the middle of its ranks as opposed to someone on the left.

So far IMO it's not looking good....

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I don't think I ever claimed that Cameron was a great, or even good PM merely that he was from the left of his party.



I guess we'll have an opportunity to see what the Conservative Party is like when it's led by someone from the middle of its ranks as opposed to someone on the left.

So far IMO it's not looking good....

AFAIAC you have Blair to thank for this mess. His actual policies were along the lines of David Cameron, which enabled the Tories to move further to the right, the Iraq War rendered Labour toxic until Corbyn came along (And even now, the PLP are still stabbing him in the back).

 

[The Don]

AFAIAC you have Blair to thank for this mess. His actual policies were along the lines of David Cameron, which enabled the Tories to move further to the right, the Iraq War rendered Labour toxic until Corbyn came along (And even now, the PLP are still stabbing him in the back).

The thing is, the Tories moved to the right - back to where they were under Thatcher so I'm not sure how one can lay the blame for that to Blair

 

[GlennB]

Dubya's lapdog/Iraq.
Expanding PFI.
Tuition fees.
Selling his soul for power and money.
Being unable to notice that he's reviled and should just stfu already.

 

[ddt]

Compared to his Conservative Party colleagues who didn't even support gay marriage, yes he was centreist.

I don't think that's a fair measure of being left or right, in the classical sense. You can be in favour of gay marriage, but also against minimum wages or maximum work hours.

In fact, in my country, the social conservative angle has always been promoted by the Christian-Democrats who sort-of had a center position in the political spectrum, while Labour to their left and the right-wing liberals to their right are both social progressives.

 

[ddt]

This. The Blair years weren't all failure. We have him to thank for the minimum wage and the smoking ban, both of which have proved great successes. Likewise, as has been mentioned before, the Good Friday Agreement, ending 30 years of conflict. Tightening rail regulation and limiting fare increases was a step in the right direction too, but it's a pity he couldn't reverse the disastrous Major privatisation.

But Iraq and PFI will forever overshadow his successes.

And he signed the European Social Charter. Not that it matters much now, but he was a team player in the EU scene.

Your conclusion still stands.

 

[Belgian thought]

And he signed the European Social Charter. Not that it matters much now, but he was a team player in the EU scene.

Your conclusion still stands.

Except that he did not remove Zero Hour Contracts when he had plenty of time do so and even promised to do so in the 1995 Brighton conference.