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How to Analyze Cryptid Assertions

WP - Most of bigfootery is lying/hoaxing. Do you dispute this?
No, and that's exactly what I and others say. But Jerry habitually converts the word most to the word all and there is the creation of the strawman.

I believe that he does that because it makes it easier for him to argue against Bigfoot skepticism on this forum. It's ridiculous because he isn't really arguing against any skeptic here and is instead arguing against a straw skeptic. He does it over and over and over again.
 
Why are you bold face denying that most of you in the BF threads attribute the phenomena to lying/dishonesty? The vast majority of you do, if you doubt it do a term search like "lie" and see how many times it gets posted in these threads.
See my reply to Night Walker. We aren't saying that it's 100% lies, but Jerry argues as if we do say that.
 
WP - Who do you consider to be "we" when you say "We aren't saying that it's 100% lies"? Does that include APB and River? Are you saying that hoaxing isn't the same as lying?
 
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WP - Who do you consider to be "we" when you say "We aren't saying that it's 100% lies"? Does that include APB and River? Are you saying that hoaxing isn't the same as lying?
I think it's everyone posting here. Everyone seems to agree that some sighting reports are mistakes and not fabricated lies.

River's most recent post in this thread uses the word most rather than all.
 
What would be your estimate, then, of the ratio between "mistaken" Bigfoot sightings and "fabricated lies"? 1:2? 1:9? 1:100?
 
My opinion is that more than 90% of sighting reports are fabricated lies. The remainder are mistakes of various kinds.
 
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^^ I agree. I also include all dishonesty under the same concept. So if you are lying to yourself--role-playing--then you are in the lying for bigfoot crowd along with the rest of the 90%
 
But it needs more specificity. There are people who have no sighting report but claim to believe that Bigfoot certainly exists. Those people may or may not be lying about their personal belief in Bigfoot existence.

So there are statistics for kinds of evidence and there are statistics for kinds of belief.
 
It depends on everyone's definition of 'bigfootery'.
If you limit it to those on websites and those who are really into bigfoot, and have a vested interested in it being real then, yes, most of them are liars and hoaxers, but if you include everyone who claims to have seen or heard a bigfoot that % goes way down.
 
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Lying/dishonesty plays a far bigger role in claims of bigfoot than is acknowledged at places like the BFF where that explanation is rarely given any serious consideration.

I find it difficult to commit to a percentage of reports that are fabricated or otherwise perpetuated by BLAARGers. I sense that it's well more than 50% of them, and that William Parcher is probably pretty close with his estimate of 90%. It is not 100%, however. I've never claimed that, and I don't know anyone who has other than people making strawman arguments to that effect.
 
It will always be a guess, but with experience in this "field of interest" I would say that "most" are lying/hoaxing and very few are mistaken identity (which could be for many reasons, based on their belief and a brief glimpse, or perhaps someone sees a bear stand up and runs away quickly they may not understand what they saw. Someone that has the belief of bigfoot might see a hiker, or a moose rear, or a tree/shadow that makes them get the/their willies off without seeing anything out of the ordinary. That's the thing, the mistaken identity part usually requires some kind of belief to begin with. If not, someone may have hoaxed them, or conned them into believing what they experienced/saw was a bigfoot when they were a "fence sitter" or dupz0r in training lol.

It's really not that complicated to see there is no creature. The interesting part IS the nutjobs lol. It's a lot like watching a train crash... you can't look away... and we all know the outcome before it begins...

Belief systems like bigfoot require vacuous intellect that specialize in gobbledygook shenanigans + DUHH.
 
My opinion is that more than 90% of sighting reports are fabricated lies. The remainder are mistakes of various kinds.

Thanks for that.

I disagree. Though there clearly is no objective evidence that Bigfoot exists, I think many here are too judgmental in the language used to explain the Bigfoot phenomenon - like "lies" which implies dishonesty when we're really talking about a fictional subject. Can you lie about Star Wars, faeries, and Santa? Is writing a song about Bigfoot (or any other subject if it really didn't happen) also lying?

For me, "fabrication" is fine because Bigfoot is created - both consciously and unconsciously - as a subjective experience rather than an objective reality. The experience may be real but the creature is not...

I reckon that more people have unconsciously fabricated their Bigfoot experience than is generally acknowledged here - perhaps there is even some instinctual mechanism that, under the right circumstances, prompts us to see potentially dangerous things that are not really there. After all, it is evolutionarily better to see a thousand false tigers lurking in the bushes than to miss the one real one...

However, the situation is complicated - people who may have had a "real Bigfoot experience" may also consciously fabricate others. Maybe conscious fabrication is a means to achieve a "real Bigfoot experience" (unconscious fabrication). False memories are also "real" and sincere even though they never happened. Unfortunately, it is hard to discuss such things when many are hung up on the lies-and-cons approach to people who are doing nothing worse than hoaxing (which is a time-honoured tradition), storytelling, and legend-tripping...
 
I had sex with Princess Leia in 1979.

That's a lie about Star Wars.

I filmed a Bigfoot at Bluff Creek in 1967.

That's a lie about Bigfoot.
 
Is there a uni professor somewhere selling "real" Stormtrooper footprint casts?

Star Wars fans claim X Wings are real?

There are "Reality Shows" with people going to the woods to find Ewoks?

Wookies, know of any habituators?

Star Wars is sold as fiction and not as reality. You may buy a Stormtrooper uniform but you know its just bits of plastic and its not sold as real; you can buy the Millenium Falcon's manual but again, no one is saying the Falcon is real.

Well, we know some people actually do... At least in Star Trek.
 
Whenever a parent signs a gift tag with From: Santa, that is a lie. So yes, it is possible to lie about Santa. I'm not passing any moral judgement on that practice. In fact, I have fond memories of believing in Santa Claus when I was young.

As pointed out above, belief in bigfoot is one thing, peddling that belief to credulous people to make money is altogether different. Adults pretending to other adults that bigfoot is real does not have a parallel with Santa Claus. Any adult who professed a serious belief in Santa Claus would be suspected of mental illness or the belief would be suspect. And rightly so in both bases.

There is also the serious anti-science component. No one is suggesting that scientists are lazy due to a lack of roof top trail cams or hair traps to capture proof of Santa Claus.
 
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However, the situation is complicated - people who may have had a "real Bigfoot experience" may also consciously fabricate others.

What does that even mean? Do you mean an actual experience with something they thought was bigfoot, or do you mean an experience with an actual bigfoot?

If it was the latter, how did they determine it was an actual bigfoot?

RayG
 
Depends how one defines sightings. Must it be a full view accompanied by a photo that looks like a costume? Or just a glimpse of something big moving in the woods?

If one includes all the claims of sightings, I think the majority aren't lying, at least on the surface. I mean, they saw something they genuinely classify as bigfoot, rather than consciously deciding to say they saw bigfoot while knowing they saw nothing or it was a bear, cow, friend in a costume, etc.

Now that doesn't mean that deep in their subconscious they know they're being fooled into believing in bigfoot evidence, like kids starting to realize Santa isn't real but holding onto the fantasy. But how deep do we want to go, before we define them as disbelievers?

It just makes sense. Who are the hoaxers hoaxing? Aren't there more victims than hoaxers? If so, then most people are telling the truth that that shadow they saw on that expensive bigfoot expedition, which everyone else claimed was bigfoot, actually was their own glimpse of bigfoot.

If one or two expedition leaders are lying to fool the rest, for example, why would the rest be lying? Unless it's all an inside joke like the Flying Spaghetti Monster where no one believes (and I don't get that vibe), then surely there are more believers for every liar who's arranging expeditions or putting up websites or writing books to encouraging belief for his own monetary or emotional gain.
 
What does that even mean? Do you mean an actual experience with something they thought was bigfoot, or do you mean an experience with an actual bigfoot?

If it was the latter, how did they determine it was an actual bigfoot?

RayG

A real experience with what that they thought was Bigfoot rather than an experience with a real Bigfoot (which does not actually exist other than via fakery/illusion and in one's mind). It's an "experience" of the heart (emotion, intuition, gut reaction, etc) rather than of the head so the term "thought" in the previous sentence may not be the right word - it's more an ambiguous liminal experience than a rational one.

Something unknown (sight, sound, etc) + ambiguous environment does not necessarily equate to a "Bigfoot experience" but something unknown (sight, sound, etc) + ambiguous environment + emotional reaction may...

So, in this regard the immersive experience is "real" but the creature is not kinda like being moved by a piece of artwork, a movie, a song, a book, or a memory - you all know what that feels like, right? Such emotional reactions come from within (even in fabricated situations) and can be very powerful (subjectively) but are not "lies" or "dishonest" as such...

If so, then "Bigfoot" is simply the terminology used to discuss a similar cluster of otherwise nameless liminal experiences similar to "ghosts" and "UFOs" - described as real because it was experienced as real. The objective evidence, however, clearly suggests otherwise...

Do you follow?
 

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