How powerful is human immune system?

[Rolfe]

Good question? Have you seen a "good" bacteria in your digestive tract or anywhere else for that matter? How do you know it isn't a whole lot of propaganda designed for not only excuses for why people are sick or just for the sake of selling millions of dollars worth or products like fancy yogurts and all the thousands of pills said to replenish "good" bacteria and cultures.

I'm not saying there are not good bacteria, I'm just saying you and I don't know if there are.

Yes, I do know what these are. I have seen them, on the agar plates and under the microscope.

Aerobic flora
Eschericia coli, 10⁷ c.f.u./gramme
Enterococcus faecalis (I think they renamed it Enterococcus faecium, whatever) 10⁷ c.f.u./gramme

Anaerobic flora
Clostridium perfringens 10⁷ c.f.u./gramme
Bacteroides fragilis 10⁸ c.f.u./gramme
Lactobacillus sp. (at least three different species) 10⁷ c.f.u./gramme

I know they're there, I've seen them. I also know what other opportunists will proliferate if the normal commensals are disturbed, because I've seen them too. You should look sometime.

I know I have eaten many yogurts and pills said to be good bacteria and felt nothing.

Understandable, as these things are mostly a scam. They'd only do you good if your intestinal flora was genuinely deranged.

NOW HERE IS THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL. If there is a good bacteria my immune response is superior to medicine and will indeed pick and choose what is good and bad, you see that is EXACTLY how the immune system works. It is your guard against all attackers yet you may be completely disregarding it and circumventing it from its designed intentions.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and this seems to be ShareCures' moment.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not saying there are not good bacteria, just saying there is no real proof that there is.

I told you above, I've seen them.

Rolfe.

 

[ShareCures]

I believe I can safely speak for all of us when I say none of us would be offended. We'd be thrilled and happy that migraines could be cured for good.

Why won't you address my point and answer it?

 

[ShareCures]

But you're entirely based in alternative medicine. Infighting between different sects is to be expected. Just because you don't like Kevin Trudeau doesn't mean you're any different to him, just less successful, in monetary terms - which is the only thing that counts in alternative medicine.

It's like dealing with psychics. "Sure", they'll say, "Silvia Browne is a fake and deserves jail. But I'm the one who can really speak to the dead. Pay me $250 and I'll show you how."

Really? Give me an example of me being based in alternative medicine. Is it the fact that I claim there are cures for diseases said to be incurable? If that is the you are more based in alternative medicine than myself because that is all I agree with and I am sure you can find at least one more thing to agree with.

I'm sure you got my point. Cures are not medicine. They were here long before medicine.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm extremely educated on how medicine claims bacteria and viruses are detected. I personally have proven without dispute that herpes testing is completely unreliable. Just because I have no intention of turning this thread into a discussion on how completely inadequate medical testing is doesn't mean I am ignorant on the subject.

If you would like me to start another thread about how inadequate medical testing is I will be happy to do so and you will not not be able to reasonable dispute it either.

Medical (veterinary) laboratory testing is my speciality. I don't believe you have ever been in a laboratory in your life, never mind personally proved anything.

Feel free to start another thread to show how little you know.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

It's quite obvious you and cattle need to be vaccinated for all parasites and all pathogens if you are going to rely on medicine curing you.

We've been over this before, were you not paying attention?

There are no vaccines for parasites except for cattle lungworm. There are also many diseases for which no vaccines exist.

You appeared at one point to realise you were saying vaccine when you meant anthelmintic. Do try to keep up. Vaccines educate the immune response to attack a pathogen it has never encontered before. Anthelmintics kill worms.

Medicine prevents cattle and sheep from being susceptible to disease the readers here are susceptible to. Medicine could prevent you from being susceptible to disease too if it where profitable.

Cattle and sheep are susceptible to lots and lots of diseases. They are not susceptible to some things other species get, simply because they're not made that way. Medicine cannot prevent animals or people from being susceptible to any diseases except by vaccination. That is real vaccination, not worming treatments. Worming treatments so not prevent any diseases, apart from stopping the actual worm infestations from gettin any worse.

Now, like wildlife and all other life on earth not crippled by diseases I do not need vaccinations. Like all healthy life forms on this earth, I rely on my immune response.

You might want to visit with your vet if you do not wish to understand your own immune response. You vet has all you need to be disease free.

I'm a vet, like I said. Veterinary medicine works the same way as human medicine. We can't make any species "disease free" by any special method. Vaccinations prevent the diseases vaccines exist for. Chemotherapeutic agents kill pathogens. These pathogens have effects which are well understood, and they do not cause metabolic diseases.

ShareCures, you are talking absolute nonsense.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm going to try to ask you guys questions. You do not have to answer them if you fear they will harm your claim that the body has an immune response effective against disease causing pathogens.

When a meat packing plant allows thousands of pounds of e-coli contaminated meat to reach the super market and 20 people diet from it, why is it only very few people have ill effects of the e-coli?

Could it be that some people already have an adequate immune response to e-coli?

Quite possibly. As I said, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Nobody is disputing that the immune response is extremely effective, and cures most infectious diseases unaided. Just as well, or we'd all still have all the colds we ever caught in out entire lives.

However, as Linda says, we know enough about the immune system also to know where its limits lie.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I think we should ask ShareCures a bit more insistently how he knows all this stuff he keeps telling us.

Rolfe.

 

[Paul2]

I don't care to understand.

"Nuff said.

 

[ShareCures]

Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
I'm not saying there are not good bacteria, just saying there is no real proof that there is.

I told you above, I've seen them.

Rolfe.

Did they have a little sign on them saying, "I'm a good bacteria"? What where they doing that made them "good". Where they helping older bacteria digest their food?

If you do not mind, please keep it in laymen terms. Unlike medicine "cures" are not complicated and anyone can understand them. Please give us the honor of speaking in terms that a laymen can understand.

What where the bacteria doing when you saw them that made them good? If you use big fancy words that I don't understand you may fool others but you won't fool me.

Keep in mind however I am not saying there are or there aren't good bacteria.

 

[ShareCures]

I asked you before, do you know what "PCR" stands for?


Rolfe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction

A PCR test does not detect viruses either. That is a common misconception. It is said to detect DNA. Mostly it is a lot of medical mumbo jumbo used to misdirect medical patients.

Rolfe, I can't tell if you are for understanding the extent of the body's immune capability or not. Clearly you are argumentative but I sometimes get the feeling that you would welcome a cure even if it exposed medicine as a fraud.

It really doesn't matter. You are trying to relate cures to medicine and we all know what medicine can and cannot cure and it does not have a thing to do with my claims. My claims are the body has an immune defense more than adequate for curing diseases said to be incurable by medicine.

 

[Sledge]

I think we should ask ShareCures a bit more insistently how he knows all this stuff he keeps telling us.

Rolfe.

Absolutely. I'd like to repeat the questions I asked previously in the hope of receiving answers this time.

1) How did you learn the secrets western medicine doesn't want us to know?

2) Why do you think that throwing abuse around is the best way to win people over?

3) Why haven't you proved your claim to cure baldness in three days?

 

[TSR]

.
Just to put the lie to SC's whiining elsewhere: show of hands, please -- who here will agree that the human immune system is capable of effectively dealing with many pathogens?

< hand up >
.

 

[ShareCures]

"Nuff said.

Paul2, do you care to learn how your immune response is capable of eliminating pathogens and disease even diseases said to be incurable by medicine?

I didn't think so, Nuff said.

 

[ShareCures]

I think we should ask ShareCures a bit more insistently how he knows all this stuff he keeps telling us.

Rolfe.

Let me tell you. When people come to me for a cure most of them leave with a cure and I don't give them anything, plug them in to anything or give them a life long diet change.

So with that being said what do you think is taking place if it is not the person's own immune response engaging? Do you think it is a miracle cure? If so do you recommend I slap my clients on the forehead and say "you is healed"?

Do you think they are not cured but they just think they are cured and when the eat shellfish for the first time seemingly without a reaction it isn't that they aren't having a reaction, its just them telling themselves their face isn't swelled up and their breathing isn't obstructed so they just keep eating ignoring the fact that they are not really cured just imagining it? No I think it is obvious to a person when they cannot breath so what do you think takes place if I do not use any products or machines and diet is for two or three weeks at most?

 

[ShareCures]

Oh yeah, how many of you have posted here that you believe you have a defense against pathogens? If you would be ever so kind to give us the message number or at least tell us what you recall saying that indicated you believe in the human immune defense and it ability to eliminate pathogens?

 

[TSR]

Oh yeah, how many of you have posted here that you believe you have a defense against pathogens? If you would be ever so kind to give us the message number or at least tell us what you recall saying that indicated you believe in the human immune defense and it ability to eliminate pathogens?

.
I have done so, in the message to which you responded with this.

Your turn: cite a *single* poster here who has stated that the human immune system is incapable of eliminating pathogens, or admit that your claims to that effect were lies.
.

 

[ShareCures]

.
Just to put the lie to SC's whiining elsewhere: show of hands, please -- who here will agree that the human immune system is capable of effectively dealing with many pathogens?

< hand up >
.

Yeah, what you said?

How many of you believe the human immune system is capable of effectively dealing with many pathogens.

While you are at it prove that I am a lying whiner and show us where you raised your hand in the previous 18 pages.

 

[ShareCures]

Absolutely. I'd like to repeat the questions I asked previously in the hope of receiving answers this time.

Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
1) How did you learn the secrets western medicine doesn't want us to know?

2) Why do you think that throwing abuse around is the best way to win people over?

3) Why haven't you proved your claim to cure baldness in three days?

1) I studied a form of alternative medicine that had the appearance of curing my clients of diseases said to be incurable. As you well know it turned out that the form of medicine did not cure them but they cured themselves. When I realized the immune response could cure what medicine could not I was "learned".
2) I threw abuse around here because there is nothing but 18 pages of abuse directed towards me and not one person giving sincere credit to the human immune response if any credit at all. As you can see we are waiting for a show of hands here now.
3) I have proved my claims to cure baldness ever time someone has come to me to be cured of male patter baldness. As I have mentioned time and time again (I understand you missing it because of all the abuse) reversing baldness may not be possible. Keeping what hair you have now is a slam dunk! There is only one proof and that is personal experience. If the Harvard Medical School endorsed my claim it still wouldn't be proof. The only proof is personal experience. If your hair is falling out faster than you can grow it back one day and the next day it is not falling out any more than when you were ten you have proof and nothing absolutely nothing else is proof.

 

[Philosaur]

My point is, no matter how obvious something seems there is still room for doubt. I admit that the pancreas producing insulin is not as doubtful as the rest of medicine but my point is made.

Is there room for doubt in your claims? What makes your claims more or less doubtful than those of medicine?

Pancreas aside consumers take medicine on 95% blind faith which lets medicine off the hook when it comes to cures.

When your clients come to you for a cure, are they also coming to you on blind faith?

When medicine tells you your body is attacking itself and your body is winning and that is why they can't cure the body attacking itself and you believe it you stop right there. You stop looking for the truth. Once you are told there is no cure which you accept on blind faith you stop reasoning.

But what if I accept medicine because it *has* worked for me? Is that any different than your clients accepting you because they feel your cures worked for them?

The question is did you have your mind made up before you read this thread?

Did you make up your mind before talking to us? If so, how is your position any different than ours?