How powerful is human immune system?

[ShareCures]

It truly puzzles me. Why would you expect anyone to believe what you say when you are ignorant of such basic knowledge as how a bacteria or virus is detected? Wouldn't you expect that the obvious conclusion is that you don't know what you are talking about and are simply making stuff up?

Linda

I'm extremely educated on how medicine claims bacteria and viruses are detected. I personally have proven without dispute that herpes testing is completely unreliable. Just because I have no intention of turning this thread into a discussion on how completely inadequate medical testing is doesn't mean I am ignorant on the subject.

If you would like me to start another thread about how inadequate medical testing is I will be happy to do so and you will not not be able to reasonable dispute it either.

 

[ShareCures]

I don't think you understand. Islet Cells of Langerhans, acinar cells and insulin are not pathogens. Those are the names of some of the cells and substances which make up the pancreas.

Again, why would you expect anyone to trust someone who lacks basic knowledge about the human body?

Linda

I don't care to understand. You [think] you understand but yet you cannot produce a cure for what medicine tells you is incurable.

Why would anyone trust a doctor who cannot cure simple little diseases such as asthma?

I don't want on single person to trust me. Have I asked you to trust me? I want ONLY the people interested in whether or not the body has an effective immune defense to trust themselves and rely upon logic and reason and disregard medical propaganda and make up their own minds whether their body has any kind of reasonable defense. NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOVE please.

 

[Dragonrock]

One more very very important question.

How offended would you be if you allowed me to prove my claims?

Let's pretend you have migraine headaches and you have used the latest and greatest migraine drugs your doctor can prescribe for the past 10 years and I met you and you were cured in less than a month.

How offended will you be when you realize without any doubt medicine has duped you? You can answer hypothetically if you like. You may need to answer this question before I can take you seriously.

I believe I can safely speak for all of us when I say none of us would be offended. We'd be thrilled and happy that migraines could be cured for good.

 

[ShareCures]

You aren't seriously thinking that the Islets of Langerhans are parasites are you?
This is high school biology mate.

The Islets are human cells within the pancreas.

As I just said I don't care what an islet or langerhan is.

YOU AREN'T seriously thinking that the body has no immune defense against pathogens? Oh yeah, that's right you are. You are of the masses here who believe man is inferior to cockroaches.

All your medical wisdom cannot cure you of a disease True Cures can cure you of. There is nothing you or the others can say to make me believe I am inferior to you. I am superior than a cockroach because I too can cure all diseases.

Now answer my question before I respond to any more of your comments please.

 

[Mashuna]

HERE HERE. Kevin Trudeau should be arrested and I am doing everything in my power to see to it that all who practice medicine without cures is taken down. Alternative medicine will be the first destroyed by True Cures.

You think you guys hate the idea of cures. You aren't nothing compared to the http://curezone.com/ who have not only banned me but who banned their members who were members before I joined the CureZone because they posted their True Cures results.

Alternative medicine hates me with much more passion than those who hate me here. Alternative medicine doesn't want their clients to be aware that all alternative medicine is placebo.

Before you get to thinking you are too good for the placebo you might consider how nice it is when your body placeboly speaking cures you of a disease said to be incurable. There is nothing wrong with your body curing you, it's actually quite satisfying knowing you are not helpless as western medicine would have you believe.

But you're entirely based in alternative medicine. Infighting between different sects is to be expected. Just because you don't like Kevin Trudeau doesn't mean you're any different to him, just less successful, in monetary terms - which is the only thing that counts in alternative medicine.

It's like dealing with psychics. "Sure", they'll say, "Silvia Browne is a fake and deserves jail. But I'm the one who can really speak to the dead. Pay me $250 and I'll show you how."

 

[ShareCures]

ShareCures,

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked (I've skipped portions of the debate), but do you believe that fungi also cause things like Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease and fatal familial insomnia?

And what actually causes the tumor growth doctors observe after exposure to high levels of radiation? Is that somehow also linked to fungi?

It would be a waste of my time for me to assume or theorize about what causes Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease and fatal familial insomnia. Theorizing causes is completely irrelevant to whether or not your immune response can engage and cure them.

The purpose of True Cures or cures is to eliminate harmful disease causing pathogens so the body can correct any possible malfunctions, short comings and or inadequacies caused by the pathogens. You don't have to give the pathogen a pet name before you kill it. Isn't that a plus?

What the masses here wish to avoid is the fact that we have been designed to eliminate all pathogens and diseases since the beginning of man and today's medical opinions and theories have no relevance in regards to the body's ability to cure diseases said to be incurable.

Medicine has taught you to disregard and therefore disengage your natural immune response.

The reason it does not matter what you call a pathogen or what pathogen is causing a condition is the fact that medicine isn't going to to do one thing useful with the information except give you a pill to numb your senses and even then there isn't really a whole lot of concern for the facts or names they only care about what concoction numbs you with the least amount of unbearable side effects.

Your immune defense does not care what causes diseases it just cares if you are going to give it the opportunity and right away to cure it.

I hope that helps. I'm not a doctor or a scientist I am a person who can provide people with cures for diseases said to be incurable and there is nothing the FDA or AMA can say or do about it.

 

[ShareCures]

.
Earlier SC was saying that the vaccines cows receive prevent them from getting diabetes.

Later, he states that vaccines are unnecessary.

Which is it?
.

It's quite obvious you and cattle need to be vaccinated for all parasites and all pathogens if you are going to rely on medicine curing you. Medicine prevents cattle and sheep from being susceptible to disease the readers here are susceptible to. Medicine could prevent you from being susceptible to disease too if it where profitable.

Now, like wildlife and all other life on earth not crippled by diseases I do not need vaccinations. Like all healthy life forms on this earth, I rely on my immune response.

You might want to visit with your vet if you do not wish to understand your own immune response. You vet has all you need to be disease free.

Now please read carefully as this was made clear prior to your comment.

 

[Nonpareil]

Show us the fungus.

Yes, this would prove your claims very easily. If you can show us the images taken from your microscope which show fungi where mainstream medicine says cancer, lupus or whatever else should be, that would prove you right rather handily.

 

[ShareCures]

Originally Posted by ShareCures View Post
I believe the pancreas produces insulin. Have said that three or four times already.

It is true that there are lots of things that suggest the pancreas produces insulin two of which you have listed. My point is, no matter how obvious something seems there is still room for doubt. I admit that the pancreas producing insulin is not as doubtful as the rest of medicine but my point is made. Pancreas aside consumers take medicine on 95% blind faith which lets medicine off the hook when it comes to cures.

So now you contradict yourself, I see. later.

Not hardly. I never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever said the pancreas does not produce insulin. I do not contradict myself so you might either read a little closer or "see" a little clearer.

Does anyone have anything to add that isn't purely argumentative?

 

[ShareCures]

It is impossible to declare someone "cured" of migraines after one month because migraines come and go on their own. Going a month or several months without one is not unusual. If this kind of ignorance of disease is typical for you, then that would explain why you think you cure people.

Purely argumentative. A person who has suffered from migraine headaches for years know when they are cured. Some know they are cured when they have been migraine free for 6 months, some know they are cured when they have been migraine headache free for one year and some know they are cured when they have been migraine free for 10 years which is all moot because they are cured the split second they are cured.

Next.

 

[ShareCures]

I'm going to try to ask you guys questions. You do not have to answer them if you fear they will harm your claim that the body has an immune response effective against disease causing pathogens.

When a meat packing plant allows thousands of pounds of e-coli contaminated meat to reach the super market and 20 people diet from it, why is it only very few people have ill effects of the e-coli?

Could it be that some people already have an adequate immune response to e-coli?

 

[Rolfe]

I claim that western medicine ignores deadly fungus and I as well as many oncologist who also claim "cancer" is no mystery or super disease but instead a aggressive fungus.

You sem to claim anything that takes your fancy at any given moment. However, please produce a reputable oncologist who believes any malignant neoplasm is caused by a fungal infection.

Some diseases are bacterial in nature. Some are parasitic in nature. Now I do really question if viruses are really viruses or if they are just lies to run a smoke screen for fungal diseases. I'm not saying there is not such a thing as a virus, I'm just saying many of diseases said to be viral in nature will soon be proven to be fungal in nature. And one thing is a fact, we do not know how far up the medical chain before we find someone who has looked at an actual virus under a microscope. Doctors have never seen one live, neither do lab techs who tell you if you have herpes or not. I seriously doubt anyone here or at your local hospital has ever seen a virus in person.

Viruses are too small to see under a light microscope, however they can be visialised in other ways, principally by electron microscopy. Many people have seen electron micrographs of viruses, including everyone who has ever studied medicine or veterinary madicine.

By the way, do you know what "PCR" stands for?

Oh, and fungi are extremely easy to see by light microscopy. I can assure you, we're not missing them. I know a fungal disease when I see one.

Understand this, when the truth about a disease is revealed the cure will almost inevitable follow very shortly after. Diseases that are not being cured are not cured because they are no lies.

How about telling us where you got your ideas from? You're trying to contradict people who have studied and practised medicine, and all you do is make assertions. How about a bit of background here. Aor are the voices telling it to you?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I thought that was the case. It lets you off the hook.

What hook would that be?

Have you finally realised that you've been calling chemotherapeutic agents (in particular, anthelmintics) vaccines, when they aren't vaccines at all? In that case, are you now intending to speak the same language as the rest of us?

Just like in humans, pets and livestock do not need what you call vaccinations. Tatyana also believes the immune response can't engage without medical raciness but that is all a lie. The immune response is 100% responsible for us being here right now. If it were not for our immune response being completely whole and independent from medicine man would have gone extinct a long time ago.

So, you're now talking about actual vaccinations, rather than anthelmintics. Fine. Don't you think it would be better if we could produce vaccines against parasites, rather than having to keep dosing with anthelmintics? Cattle lungworm, which we have a vaccine for, is no problem at all now, because pretty much all calves are vaccinated. Gut worms and liver fluke however continue to be a problem because animals keep getting infected and keep having to be treated, and then the parasites develop resistance to the anthelmintic.

Vaccines are seldom used on livestock only when improper farming or ranching has been an issue.

Rubbish. Most farms vaccinate, although as I said there are some that do not, expecially organic farms. (Though the organic movement is beginning to see the light on that one.) Apart from organic ideology, the main reason not to vaccinate is that you have a closed herd or flock, and the disease is not present. This is good if you can maintain freedom from disease by biosecurity, because you save money on vaccine, and don't risk any side-effects. However such herds can experience severe disease outbreaks if the biosecurity fails.

Most farms, however, vaccinate.

D-worming is more than sufficient for keeping livestock disease free and healthy. This is most likely do to the fact that a body d-wormed is not only toxic enough to kill worms it is also toxic enough to kill most other pathogens. Ivermectin will likely be strong enough to cure any bacteria or virus if there is such a thing as a virus.

That's nonsense. Ivermectin is not an antibiotic, and of course it's not an antiviral. I see animals which have recently been treated with anthelmintics which have died of bacterial or viral diseases, quite frequently.

Did you read the SCOPS guidelines? About minimising use of anthelmintics to minimise development of resistance? Do you know about the organic rules, that avoid worming the animals? About trying to control parasites by rotating the grazing and so on?

I see animals with greater or lesser parasite burdens all the time. They don't have diabetes, by the way. But they do have liver failure and PGE and so on.

Did you have a point in there somewhere? Are you just making this up as you go along?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Medicine is going to say that fungus causes jock itch and nothing serious. Medicine lies.

Actually, there are quite a few fungal conditions which can be quite serious and even fatal. Medicine understands this.

If there are any farmers here they will agree that not one kernel of grain would make it to the tables without fungicides. Not one cherry or one orange. Our livestock would be non existent if the d-worming/vaccinations did not prevent them from being saturated with fungus.

I'll leave the grain/fruit part alone except to suggest you find out a bit more about organic farming.

Now I thought you understood that there are no vaccines against worms (except Dictyocaulus viviparus). That anthelmintics are chemotherapeutic agents. You even said livestock were seldom vaccinated (nowhere near true), at that point apparently understanding what a vaccine is.

Anthelmintics are not active against fungi (or bacteria or viruses). They kill parasites. That's all. And there are many animals which are not treated with anthelmintics (look at organic farming again), and mostly they get worms, though not always seriously, but they don't get diabetes. They get the problems worms cause, that's all.

Farmers following the SCOPS guidelines will be depiberately leaving a low level of worms present in their sheep, in order to combat anthelmintic resistance. Then they can use the anthelmintic on any animal that gets enough worms to get sick, and it will (hopefully) still work. The animals with the worms don't get diabetes, on any other condition not known and understood to be caused by worms.

Where are you getting all this from anyway? I'm telling you standard veterinary and agricultural knowledge. You seem to be inventing your own script as you go along.

Rolfe only knows what she was taught to tell us. She has no idea what the medications given to livestock or pets really do. She has no idea what actually causes diseases in animals she only know what her schooling told her caused the disease.

I know what I have studied and researched for nearly 40 years. I did my doctorate within a department of pharmacology. I know a great deal about what medicines really do.

If you want to disagree with me, I suggest you show your working.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Very reasonable response. However when it comes to herpes there are a lot of people diagnose as a-symptomatic because they tested positive in an antibody test but have never had any signs and symptoms. Now you will probably say that the count matters but it doesn't because medicine has no way of knowing for sure if a virus is causing generation of an antibody or if it is a bacteria and just to let you in on the secret more than likely the antibody associated with herpes testing is going to be a result of fungus and not virus.

Herpesviruses tend to become latent in the body rather than being eliminated completely by the immune response, so if there is evidence of an immune response it means the patient has had the virus so still has it. It may remain latent forever more, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

And of course we know which virus or bacterium has caused a particular antibody to develop. You seem to have no idea of the nature of the scientific work carried out to acquire this knowledge.

How about telling us about the scientific work carried out to support your view of the situation?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

The same goes with anything reported by medicine. Unless you started the research your yourself and finished it from start to finish you are going strictly on faith.

In that case, tell us about the research that supports what you are saying.


Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

No they are not. They are rarely ever looked at. There are very few if any test designed to detect viruses. Most test used to diagnose viruses detect "indications" of viruses and never ever detect the actual virus.

I asked you before, do you know what "PCR" stands for?

I do not know about bacteria testing but from what I have heard they pretty much color a sample and if it turns one color they have a bacteria or virus and if it it doesn't they don't have it.

You're right about one thing. You do not know about bacteria testing. You could come and do my basic course for agriculture students, and then you'd know more than you do now.

Bacteria are grown on agar plates and they can be seen there with the naked eye. They are also looked at under the microscope to see their structure in more detail. Things changing colour are only ways to tell one species of bacterium from another.

Nope, there are very few if any in a hospital or lab setting looking at pathogens and saying "there it is". They are looking at colors and other "indications" of the "possible" presence of the pathogen. And to shed more light on it the test results will say that this test in now way means you have the virus, bacteria or disease.

Nope testing for bacteria and viruses is more vague than the rest of medicine. You are all wrong. And I can't imagine anyone needing a microscope in a military hospital. I may have to question one's memory of the past, no offense.

No, we're looking at agar plates with easily visible colonies of bacteria on them, and looking at the bacterial cells down the microscope. Every day, on every sample. The day after I've done a post mortem examination, if I think there's a bacterial cause, I go in the lab and ask the technicians if they have anything for me, and they will find the agar plate and we will look at it together and say, "there it is". It's not colours, we look at the actual bacteria.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I said we do not have proof. I personally believe the pancreas produces insulin.

Uh, it has been proved that insulin is produced by the beta cells in the islets of Langerhans in the pancreas. Conclusively. It's your problem if you're not aware of the proof.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

No sir. Rolfe and a few others have already made it clear that no pathogen or parasite attacks or what was the word they used....oh yeah "colonize" the pancreas.

OK, so you just proved them all wrong and me right about pathogens in the pancreas. Thank you!

Paximperium didn't say anything about pathogens or parasites in the pancreas. He showed you a picture of some of the cells which are a normal part of the pancreas - specifically, the ones that produce the insulin.

I didn't say no "pathogen" attacks the pancreas. I said no parasite lives in the pancreas of sheep or cattle.

But you did prove Rolfe wrong and the d-wormers given to cattle and sheep prevent pathogens from causing harm the sheep and cattle pancreas.

He showed you a picture of a normal pancreas. There were no parasites or pathogens in it.

Anthelmintics do nothing for the pancreas, because there are no parasites in the pancreas. However, lots of animals aren't given worming treatments, and they don't get diabetes or any other disease of the pancreas. They get the diseases we know are caused by worms.

Rolfe.

 

[Nonpareil]

Apparently ShareCures is unable to differentiate between "There are some pathogenic infections that the human body cannot defeat" and "The human body cannot defeat any pathogenic infections". Hopefully this misunderstanding is cleared up now and it won't come up again.