How NOT to run a debunking site

[Baylor]

Having two popular debunking sites post conflicting stories only gives truthers the fuel they need for the fire.

Conflicting accounts of when and where the black boxes were found abound on debunking sites.

Who found the black boxes?

Debunk911myths.org, along with Newsweek say Burkhammer found the black boxes.

Early Friday morning, shortly before 4 a.m., Carlton Burkhammer and another firefighter, Brian Moravitz, were combing through debris near the impact site. Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long. They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open.

Popular Mechanics says it was Kilsheimer.

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

Where were they found?

The Pentagon Building Performance Report puts it "nearly 300 feet" from the impact hole, which would mean it was found in the c-ring, as Kilsheimer claimed. The AP puts it, "right where the plane came into the building."

To sum up, Debunk911myths.org puts it in the e ring and found by Burkhammer.

PM puts it in the c ring and found by Kilsheimer.

This is exactly what CIT & Co. needs to "prove" evidence was planted.

AFAIK, neither PM nor debunk debunk911myth.org has cleared up with one another.

 

[alexi_drago]

That can only mean one thing, two planes entered through the same hole which would explain the discrepincies in the flightpaths witnessed.

 

[RedIbis]

I have learned in my experience here that the more precise and specific your post is the less you will receive any semblance of discourse.

The regulars tend to seize upon the goofier aspects of the so called Truth movement. This is likely to be left untouched, unless they chime in with a few cheap shots.

 

[SDC]

Red I., I gather you mean that the more you avoid facts, the better off you are. Interesting approach.

 

[RedIbis]

Red I., I gather you mean that the more you avoid facts, the better off you are. Interesting approach.

It's a fairly simple matter. How do you reconcile the two accounts? We're talking about a key piece of evidence. Why such differing accounts?

 

[Arus808]

and why should PM clear up what they posted vs what Debunk911myths has posted?

All it shows is that on a day of chaos, people will have conflicting reports and also realie when these statements were taken.

The newsweek artcile was written on 9/28/2001 - 17 days after the attack. by that time, was all of the investigation done?


The Pentagon report had more time to do the research, and verify the facts.

 

[Arus808]

It's a fairly simple matter. How do you reconcile the two accounts? We're talking about a key piece of evidence. Why such differing accounts?

easy, if you bother to read the sourced articles used, you'll see why the differing accounts.

but we know that you will do no such thing.

 

[RedIbis]

and why should PM clear up what they posted vs what Debunk911myths has posted?

All it shows is that on a day of chaos, people will have conflicting reports and also realie when these statements were taken.

The newsweek artcile was written on 9/28/2001 - 17 days after the attack. by that time, was all of the investigation done?


The Pentagon report had more time to do the research, and verify the facts.

Slow down. It's still English and we still have to try and make some sense out of what you write.

 

[uruk]

Which again shows the problem with relying solely on personal account rather than evidence.
The AP an PM account rely on a reporter asking people questions. The Performance report is backed up with physical evidence for confirmation. (something the CIT boys need to learn)

As to why the people interviewed by AP and PM said what they said, only they know.

As for PM and debunk911myth.org, shoot them an e-mail.

 

[Arus808]

stop reading so fast RI. you missed the article dates and the reason why a well researched report is more reliable than the shot gun asking of questions by reporters.

 

[johnny karate]

I have learned in my experience here that the more precise and specific your post is the less you will receive any semblance of discourse.

The regulars tend to seize upon the goofier aspects of the so called Truth movement. This is likely to be left untouched, unless they chime in with a few cheap shots.

And of course there's the ever popular "Take things completely out of context and pretend they mean something they don't" counter-argument technique.

If only everyone had the acumen and passion for truth that you do, maybe someday we'll figure out what actually happened on 9/11.

 

[TheLoneBedouin]

And of course there's the ever popular "Take things completely out of context and pretend they mean something they don't" counter-argument technique.

If only everyone had the acumen and passion for truth that you do, maybe someday we'll figure out what actually happened on 9/11.

Then there's the "La La La La- You hate the heroes of 9/11 you terrorist sympathizer- La La La La" technique.

 

[MarkyX]

Then there's the "La La La La- You hate the heroes of 9/11 you terrorist sympathizer- La La La La" technique.

CIT says first responders are part of the coverup.

 

[beachnut]

Which black box? There are two boxes. There are other things that look like black boxes, kind of. So unless your source is the NTSB expert, it is hearsay and if the source is the news people, it may be flawed and twisted. This is why CIT can't figure out 9/11, like RI can't, they are unable to use logic and rational thinking to piece together the event.

7 years; CIT, TLB and RI have no clue on 9/11.

 

[WildCat]

There are 2 "black boxes" per plane - a CVR and an FDR.

 

[johnny karate]

Then there's the "La La La La- You hate the heroes of 9/11 you terrorist sympathizer- La La La La" technique.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you actually hate "the heroes of 9/11", but you certainly have shown an incredible lack of respect for them in some of your posts.

Then again, maybe you do hate them. I don't know.

 

[Baylor]

and why should PM clear up what they posted vs what Debunk911myths has posted?

All it shows is that on a day of chaos, people will have conflicting reports and also realie when these statements were taken.

I like my debunking sites how I like my women: no loose ends.

 

[Baylor]

There are 2 "black boxes" per plane - a CVR and an FDR.

Debunk911myths says Burkhammer found two. PM says Kilsheimer found at least one, so that's at least one too many. The ASCE report says black boxes (plural) were found in the c ring. Now we're up to four.

 

[CurtC]

From reading Kilsheimer's statement, it's not clear that he's saying he was the first person to find the recorder(s). He's listing off the things that he saw, and a recorder is among them. He was talking to reporters, not making a careful statement (as evidence by his saying that he held the tail section of the plane in his hands).

I think you're trying to make a contradiction where one doesn't really exist.

 

[Baylor]

From reading Kilsheimer's statement, it's not clear that he's saying he was the first person to find the recorder(s). He's listing off the things that he saw, and a recorder is among them. He was talking to reporters, not making a careful statement (as evidence by his saying that he held the tail section of the plane in his hands).

I think you're trying to make a contradiction where one doesn't really exist.

Kilsheimer does take credit for finding the black boxes, even the history channel says this. I hate to sound like a truther, but why do debunk911myths and Mark Roberts say Burkhammer (the firefighter) found it?

Mark Roberts Firefighters discover Pentagon black box FDR Flight data recorder