How much would vegetarianism benefit humanity?

[David Wong]

Vegetarianism is a manifestation of superstition.

Well, that 6-word blind assertion is all the argument you need when you put it in BOLD. I'm convinced!

 

[Perpetual Student]

Well, that 6-word blind assertion is all the argument you need when you put it in BOLD. I'm convinced!

OK, then. We are endowed with an omnivorous digestive system and our omnivorous nature as a species is at least hundreds of thousands of years old.
Many religions incorporate food taboos; So, is vegetarianism a religion?
(bold is just for you)

 

[Dr. Imago]

Just remember to take your B12 supplements, veggie-eaters-only. Pernicious anemia is a .

~Dr. Imago

 

[Herzblut]

To me the main point is trying to encourage people to keep the portion of meat of their balanced omnivorous diet as small as possible.

Why? What's the point?

When asked about the possibility of reducing their meat consumption (here and in the real world), even in theory, I feel it's rather the people loving to eat meat on a daily basis that are usually holding an unreasonable/fanatic position.

So, you ask others to change their eating habits and think they are unreasonable to resist? What if somebody asks you to change your nutrition?

 

[Beerina]

How much would vegetarianism benefit humanity?

Quite a lot, it would seem, although some believe that for the entire planet to turn vegetarian would...

Unfortunately, or fortunately, the quality-of-life issue w.r.t. flavor and eating satisfaction outweighs a lot of it.


And, as usual, I'm disturbed that a "critical mass" of public opinion may be able to flat-out outlaw it, the way cigarettes are currently poised to be.

Propriety of the domain of government is, unfortunately, rarely questioned nowadays in favor of vox populi vox dei.

 

[Perpetual Student]

Scientific evidence like this must perplex and frustrate vegetarian dogmatists:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080111210350.htm
and
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-18-adkins_x.htm

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Vegetarianism is a manifestation of superstition.

Just remember to take your B12 supplements, veggie-eaters-only. Pernicious anemia is a .

~Dr. Imago

Unfortunately, or fortunately, the quality-of-life issue w.r.t. flavor and eating satisfaction outweighs a lot of it.


And, as usual, I'm disturbed that a "critical mass" of public opinion may be able to flat-out outlaw it, the way cigarettes are currently poised to be.

Propriety of the domain of government is, unfortunately, rarely questioned nowadays in favor of vox populi vox dei.

Scientific evidence like this must perplex and frustrate vegetarian dogmatists:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080111210350.htm
and
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-11-18-adkins_x.htm

What I don't understand is the rather prickish knee-jerk reaction to the suggestion that vegetarianism would be a net benefit.

For example, in my region we use our fresh water supply to water crops, 90% of which go to animals, not humans.

And we all should have learned in biology that you lose 90% of the energy each greater step of the food chain you go. And if you look at all we put into getting our meat (the factory farms, huge waste amounts dumped in the local area, lots of anti-biotics, etc.) it is even more inefficient.

I can see grassland animals fine as well, though. I am not vegetarian, but I can see where these arguments are coming from. I don't get why people are acting like they are offended on behalf of their sacred eating habits, though.

 

[Perpetual Student]

What i don't understand is the rather prickish knee-jerk reaction to the suggestion that vegetarianism would be a net benefit.

For example, in my region we use our fresh water supply to water crops, 90% of which go to animals, not humans.

And we all should have learned in biology that you lose 90% of the energy each greater step of the food chain you go. And if you look at all we put into getting our meat (the factory farms, huge waste amounts dumped in the local area, lots of anti-biotics, etc.) it is even more inefficient.

I can see grassland animals fine as well, though. I am not vegetarian, but i can see where these arguments are coming from. I don't get why people are acting like they are offended on behalf of their sacred eating habits, though.

peta

 

[Ziggurat]

Here are some quotes from articles. (I can't vouch for the accuracy of the information, though much of it comes from reputable sources.)

Take Egypt. Malnutrition is rife -- over 80 per cent of children under five-years-old are malnourished. The country has to import wheat for breadmaking. And the reason would seem obvious. Over 50 million people crammed into a narrow strip of land either side of the Nile. Demography and geography have run up against each other. Poverty is the result.

Yeah, um... no. Egypt has always been poor, even when it had far fewer people. According to Wikipedia, 99% of the population is confined to about 5.5% of the land, giving an effective population density of about 1500 people/km². But compare that to Hong Kong, with a population of about 6000 people/km². Hong Kong has a per capita GDP of around 14 times as high as Egypt's. It has to import lots of food, but it's not poor. So something is clearly way off about this analysis.

Oh, and no mention of the role of ethanol production on food prices.

 

[leftysergeant]

Therte is a valid argument for running cattle on dry grasslands that would not support any edible food crop. I have a problem with the idea of feeding them grain that would, itself, have met the protein needs of three or four times as many people as do the cattle produced.

Feeding them grain, ultimately, results in humans with clogged veins.

Eating meat made a lot more sense before the development of agriculture. It is difficult to forage enough protein from vegetable sources in the wild. We don't have that excuse when we can raise enough barley and beans on a couple of acres to feed a small family.

There are, of course, political considerations. It has already been pointed out that the demand for meat overwhelms the ability of some countries to produce affordable foods, thus benefitting the wealthy producers and consumers far more than it does the peasants who work the land.

A good example would be the Irish potato famine. There was food there, but it was produced for export or consumption by the landlords. The peasants got what the landlords wanted to give them, essentially. Lots of people starved as a result.

Eating meat, in a capitalist system with no limits leads to starvation for the poor and obesity for the wealthy.

 

[David Wong]

peta

Is there a latin term for the "random bold word or words" style of argument?

 

[leftysergeant]

peta

A totally emotional response, reflecting exactly the amount of thought that went into it.

 

[leftysergeant]

Hong Kong has a per capita GDP of around 14 times as high as Egypt's. It has to import lots of food, but it's not poor. So something is clearly way off about this analysis.

Hong Kong has stuff to export and is a popular tourist destination. There are jobs for people to provide income so that they can buy the imported food.

Egypt really has nothing significant to export. That kind of leaves the people with little way of buying even what is imported.

The ecconomics of the situation are not that hard to figure out.

 

[Ziggurat]

Eating meat, in a capitalist system with no limits leads to starvation for the poor and obesity for the wealthy.

Then why is obesity disproportionately a problem for the poor in the US?

 

[Ziggurat]

Hong Kong has stuff to export and is a popular tourist destination.

What, Egypt isn't a popular tourist destination? Is it missing attractions?

Egypt really has nothing significant to export.

And what is it that you think Hong Kong exports? Crops? Oil? Minerals? You're not exactly making a case for that source's argument.

The ecconomics of the situation are not that hard to figure out.

And yet, for some reason, that source didn't.

 

[leftysergeant]

Then why is obesity disproportionately a problem for the poor in the US?

Here there is, at least, a lot of cheap crap readily available. Some countries do not have even that, so only the rich can get enopugh to eat that they become fat.

 

[leftysergeant]

What, Egypt isn't a popular tourist destination? Is it missing attractions?

The night life sucks. That's where the real money is in tourism

And what is it that you think Hong Kong exports? Crops? Oil? Minerals? You're not exactly making a case for that source's argument.

I'm looking at a lot of clothes with the label "Made in Hong Kong." Betcha some of the cotton in those shirts came from Egypt, and that the people who harvested it made a lot less than a comfortable wage doing it.

And yet, for some reason, that source didn't.

When you have to import stuff that costs more than what you export you have a problem, every time.

 

[Herzblut]

Here there is, at least, a lot of cheap crap readily available. Some countries do not have even that, so only the rich can get enopugh to eat that they become fat.

Oh. So, you're saying that "Eating meat, in a capitalist system with no limits but without a lot of cheap crap readily available, leads to starvation for the poor and obesity for the wealthy."

Interesting. What countries are you thinking of?

 

[Ziggurat]

Here there is, at least, a lot of cheap crap readily available. Some countries do not have even that, so only the rich can get enopugh to eat that they become fat.

And they're all paragons of capitalism? No, I don't think so. Third-world countries tend to be quite far from free markets.

The night life sucks. That's where the real money is in tourism

And that's got what, exactly, to do with a lack of land or the use of crops to feed livestock? Nothing.

I'm looking at a lot of clothes with the label "Made in Hong Kong." Betcha some of the cotton in those shirts came from Egypt, and that the people who harvested it made a lot less than a comfortable wage doing it.

And why aren't those labels saying "Made in Egypt"? Why aren't the garment factories in Cairo? Again, the answers have got nothing to do with a lack of land or the use of crops to feed livestock.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Sorry, I don't have time to read this thread. I gotta watch the pork chops I'm cooking.