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How much time do we really have?

Pyrts said:
This one is not correct.

First...the Exodus did NOT happen (or at least not in the way it's presented in the Bible.) Jews were never in Egypt in significant numbers until fairly late (600 BC, and moreso after 300 BC.) The pharaoh of the presumed Exodus has never been identified. One of the towns presumed to have been built in the time of Moses (Pi-Rameses) in fact was abandoned before then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi-Ramesses and the Haman story is a hoax: http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/katz/haman/bucaille.html
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The thing is...simply using your quote...what would cause me to take what YOU say about this, as gospel, any more than what the Bible account says.
I too could tell everyone that stuff from say 1500 or so BC was simply made up. Lol.
Afterall, who has the real proof?
Where did you get your information that it is a fabrication? I`m all ears. Not being sarcastic.
.

Do you have facts showing that there are other such fabrications from back then also? I`d be interested. Seriously.
One could say simply that no evidence or writings have been found to substantiate claim X.
But i used to say(as just one example) trapse around in the woods as a kid, but have no evidence of it. Nothing written, no photos...didnt even tell my parents lots of stuff. Yet its true.
So. where are we with this? We DO have the Bible. So then... which of the two counter-claims trumps the other, and why?
 
Correa Neto said:
So, when will we be sent to burn in Hell by our everloving father?
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And to think its for all eternity, over say an 80 year mistake on our part. Perhaps even an honest mistake. Nothing to do with spite, or anything.
To answer your question it wouldnt really matter if it occurred the instant you die, or a billion years later. You wouldnt realize the time element.
The religious tracks i used to get, or perhaps Jehovah Witness booklets they handed out, showed people bobbing in a lake of fire. And i wondered if you would be screaming for all eternity, and also wondered why you simply didnt get burned up to a crisp.
More importantly, i wondered why God would even bother waking you from the dead, just so he could do this? ???
Why not just let bygones be bygones and let the shaft remain dead, and reward the wheat?...i have wondered.
I always figured it was a made up :pixie2 -tale, so that people would toe the line, so to speak.
.
Ever watch the movie `Little Nicky`, starring Adam Sandler? Lol
 
Craig B said:
I assume you mean that, and it's not a joke. If so, it is a dangerous delusion, and illustrates one of the perils of supernatural belief.
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(See post #97)
Not a joke.
That is, presuming a God...and when we are to die.
My response just seems common sense to me. Based on if *I* were God...why would i allow man to get cars, tv, rocket ships, computers, cellphones....then for no particular reason just declare the time is up. Why? And what`s the rush? God is timeless for all eternity? Why should he even care? This way he gets to watch us and see what happens. He could jump in though if he felt we were going to annihalate ourselves.
 
Iamme said:
... The religious tracks i used to get, or perhaps Jehovah Witness booklets they handed out, showed people bobbing in a lake of fire.
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Do the Witnesses believe in hell? I thought they didn't, to their credit.
 
Iamme said:
And to think its for all eternity, over say an 80 year mistake on our part. Perhaps even an honest mistake. Nothing to do with spite, or anything.
To answer your question it wouldnt really matter if it occurred the instant you die, or a billion years later. You wouldnt realize the time element.
The religious tracks i used to get, or perhaps Jehovah Witness booklets they handed out, showed people bobbing in a lake of fire. And i wondered if you would be screaming for all eternity, and also wondered why you simply didnt get burned up to a crisp.
More importantly, i wondered why God would even bother waking you from the dead, just so he could do this? ???
Why not just let bygones be bygones and let the shaft remain dead, and reward the wheat?...i have wondered.
I always figured it was a made up :pixie2 -tale, so that people would toe the line, so to speak.
.
Ever watch the movie `Little Nicky`, starring Adam Sandler? Lol
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IIRC what (at least some, so it seems) Bible-bashers say (claim to belive) its worse. You'll spend some time barbecuing in Hellfire THEN you will be turned in to nothing, cease to exist, die really, dead forever.

Quite a sadistic god, eh? And what about the folks who believe in this horror? Sadistic folks eager to see "the infidels" burning and meek, frightened people? Both? What horrible way to live, under the shadow of such a tyrant. Sure, must have some appeal in the minds of people dwelling in ignorance, hate and prejudice against "them".
 
Craig B said:
Do the Witnesses believe in hell? I thought they didn't, to their credit.
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Uhhhhhh. You got me on that one. Not sure now. I have stacks of their booklets...still. Googling be easier to find out.
If my info was not pertinant to the Witnesses...then it must have been Duane Gish, Ph.D tracts my religious boss, out of highschool, gave me in hopes i`d be `born again`.
 
Correa Neto said:
IIRC what (at least some, so it seems) Bible-bashers say (claim to belive) its worse. You'll spend some time barbecuing in Hellfire THEN you will be turned in to nothing, cease to exist, die really, dead forever.

Quite a sadistic god, eh? And what about the folks who believe in this horror? Sadistic folks eager to see "the infidels" burning and meek, frightened people? Both? What horrible way to live, under the shadow of such a tyrant. Sure, must have some appeal in the minds of people dwelling in ignorance, hate and prejudice against "them".
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Let me make an equation here, if you will. Football coaches(God), and football players(us).
Two schools of thought been mentioned on say sports talk.
One is, you have this really nice coach that the guys love playing for. Until......well, yeah, they finally catch on that he is a cupcake and no longer play as hard.
Or, two, you get a tyrant of a coach, who....like Curly of the Three Stooges...causes even big grown men to go ``whoob boob boob boob boob``, and jump at every command, out of fear.
So there`s your answer.
 
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A quick google check indeed points to Jehovah Witnesses not believing in God. Worth reading...site lists scripture passages by author disputing the Winesses, where he/she lists actual verses where hell is described.
 
Iamme said:
Let me make an equation here, if you will. Football coaches(God), and football players(us).
Two schools of thought been mentioned on say sports talk.
One is, you have this really nice coach that the guys love playing for. Until......well, yeah, they finally catch on that he is a cupcake and no longer play as hard.
Or, two, you get a tyrant of a coach, who....like Curly of the Three Stooges...causes even big grown men to go ``whoob boob boob boob boob``, and jump at every command, out of fear.
So there`s your answer.
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If life is like a football game, who are we playing against?
 
Craig B said:
Eh? Whose witnesses are they then?
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Jehovah`s.
Couldnt be the devil now from what i learned.
They would be witnessing basically that God is real, and the Bible is true...(cough)...except parts that they dont want to believe in, apparently.
 
tsig said:
If life is like a football game, who are we playing against?
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Besides playing against the clock, as someone mentioned, lol, the point i was making is that there are 2 ways your boss (think God), can try to get something out of you: By being so nice that you love working him, which often leads to workers sloughing off...or by being real mean and then the fear of him and what he might do to you, causing you to work hard.
If i thought God might turn me into a salt lick if i didnt do what he wanted...well?, i`d do as he wanted. Lol.
 
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Iamme said:
Besides playing against the clock, as someone mentioned, lol, the point i was making is that there are 2 ways your boss (think God), can try to get something out of you: By being so nice that you love working him, which often leads to workers sloughing off...or by being real mean and then the fear of him and what he might do to you, causing you to work hard.
If i thought God might turn me into a salt lick if i didnt do what he wanted...well?, i`d do as he wanted. Lol.
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Why would god try to get something out of you? A god who needs something from humans is not only less than divine he's less than human.
 
Look, I love my son.

He plays football (soccer for USA folks). I train him, I play with him, I see him playing, I coach him. I tell him what he can do to improve, what's he's done right or wrong. I can be a bit harsh sometimes, but I would never throw him in a lake of fire, let him burn there and then kill him. I'll try to be as clear as possible, I'll try to do my best on educating him.

Now, this thing, call it IHWH, Allah, G_d, God, Jaweh, whathever, is everloving, omniscient AND omnipotent. So, it can do much better than I do. This thing, however, does not. It passes its teatchings, messages through poorly written, poorly translated and hastly assembled collections of cryptic texts wich are thousands or hundreds of years old.

Every single bit of theology trying to explain this out is crap. Yeah, lots of people believe in those poor and lame excuses. So what?

So, do not try to build any excuses or analogies for the contradictions in this thing's alleged love for its creation, its behavior and its powers. The doctrines built over them are nothing but oppression masked as love, benevolence, monstrous conception under whose shadows most of humanity lives. Now, as contradictory as it may be, I do have some respect for religious traditions, I do acknowledge religions' important roles in mankind's societies and history, but I can't help but noticing Abrahamic gods are monsters and/or incompetent in their trades.
 
Lord Emsworth said:
I can give an answer to question number 1:
By quoting Islamic apologetics, in this case Maurice Bucaille. :p Some feat.

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* Or whatever he exactly is; to me it sounds like apologetics anyway.
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What are you talking about? Maurice Bucaille was an author, and French medical doctor, there is a link to a documentary about the mans life in the OP. He is mainly known for his book "The Bible, The Qur'an and Science: The Holy Scriptures Examined in the Light of Modern Knowledge".

And we still have yet to learn the basis of the argument being made, or if he is the person who is making it.
 
Mahaha said:
I love how the OP cherry picks which reply he's going to answer. He always answers the ones where he can be convoluted and obscure, but neve the very straightforward ones.
He does this on another thread as well.
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Speaking of being obscure, what exactly is it that you are referring to?
 
tsig said:
Why would god try to get something out of you? A god who needs something from humans is not only less than divine he's less than human.
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The quran says that God created men and jinns only so that they would worship him.
What kind of pathetic monstrosity would want to be worshipped?
 
Scorpion said:
The quran says that God created men and jinns only so that they would worship him.
What kind of pathetic monstrosity would want to be worshipped?
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Insane Bronze Age kings were quite keen on it. YHWH in some of his aspects appears to be modelled on these pathetic monstrosities. The Abrahamic religions seem to accept this divine desire to be worshipped as an unexamined given.
 
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