How much does it really matter?

[Mobyseven]

[intentional fallacy]I also want to combat falling literacy levels. There seems to be a correlation between poor literacy and 9/11 trutherism.[/intentional fallacy]

 

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

It matters a great deal because the people planting the woo-woo in every venue they can are far from benign. Some are white nationalists, some are sociopaths who want to make life miserable for everyone else, some may even be sent by Karl Rove to distract us from the real crimes that some of the bush cabinet have been involved in to make any real evidence look like just another rant from "those crazies."

The white nationalists are the ones who scare me.

The worsdt the Wahabis will do is kill a few hundred or a few thousand of us and go home or to hell, as the case may be.

The white nationalists want to take over here and stay. Then my kind get marched off to the death camps.

So, when I see them, I have to swat them down before some innocent schlub buys into one part of their rhetoric and winds up packing a weapon on the wrong side of the RaHoWa.

Maybe, if I expose the link between Da Twoof and the Oraganization, I won't need to shoot anybody, because there will be no RaHoWa for lack of recruits.

To be fair, there are many on the far left who are quick to jump on any chance to knock the US down a notch or two. It's not just wacky white nationalists who are spreading the lies. Even Hugo Chavez was saying that he believed in MIHOP. As are Rosie O'Donnell. Charlie Sheen. etc. They're definitely not "far right"... This is my theory of how far left and far right meet eventually with common ground... and everyone loses.

 

[dudalb]

To be fair, there are many on the far left who are quick to jump on any chance to knock the US down a notch or two. It's not just wacky white nationalists who are spreading the lies. Even Hugo Chavez was saying that he believed in MIHOP. As are Rosie O'Donnell. Charlie Sheen. etc. They're definitely not "far right"... This is my theory of how far left and far right meet eventually with common ground... and everyone loses.

I 1000 percent agree. I think Lefty Sergeant is allowing his political opinions to color his view of the Truth movement.It seems to attracts loons of both the left and the right.

 

[Civilized Worm]

The worsdt the Wahabis will do is kill a few hundred or a few thousand of us and go home or to hell, as the case may be.

WHAT? These people want the whole world to be subject to sharia law!

 

[leftysergeant]

WHAT? These people want the whole world to be subject to sharia law!

And they will be as effective in this as we have been in converting the whole world to laissez-faire capitalism. And for the same reason.

But Bush is, for the time being, giving them an advantage in that he is allowing the findamentalist Christians to propogate their belief that they are setting the stage for the return of Christ.

I think they need to read the Book of Daniel, especially the first chapter, and try to understand what will happen if they try to force God's hand in this, especially in the region in which Nebuchadreezer recieved the prophecy of the idol. God has not promisded either side a victory there.

 

[Civilized Worm]

Eh?

I'm saying that there's far more reason to be worried about islamic terrorism than white nationalist terrorism at this point in time.

 

[leftysergeant]

Internally, the white nationalists are more dangerous. It's harder to fight an enemy that can pass for us.

 

[Lensman]

There's good reason to be concerned about all flavours of fundamental religion.

 

[maccy]

This is something I posted on the Screw Loose Change blog:

For me it has never been about whether the truth movement would "succeed" or not. It's obviously too pathetic to ever convince a majority of people or to get a new investigation, even if it could work out what to investigate.

No, for me, the real point is to give people the information that should stop them from being conned into giving up time and money for this nonsense - as well possibly damaging their own lives and personal relationships. It's a con, plain and simple - and that makes it worth exposing.

If a three-card con artist on a street corner is only taking money from a tiny percentage of the population, is that a reason not spread the word about the three-card con trick?

http://www.haloscan.com/comments.php?user= screwloosechange &comment=5813712086780562559#87663

 

[Darth Rotor]

The white nationalists want to take over here and stay. Then my kind get marched off to the death camps.

Not likely. You have some firearms. You know firearms. You are likely to use them.

This was not common in 1939 among the general population in Germany.

Your Second Amendment stands you in good stead if you retain the will to use them.

DR

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I 1000 percent agree. I think Lefty Sergeant is allowing his political opinions to color his view of the Truth movement.It seems to attracts loons of both the left and the right.

Heh, go back and dig up some of the old threads involving pomeroo and PerryLogan.

 

[maccy]

Also, see this thread, "Why we Fight":

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1940907

Here's Gravy's post from the thread in full:

– So that on September 11, 2007, people can go to Ground Zero without running into a crowd of uniformed "patriots" marching behind a ranting charismatic leader to shout "Murderer!" outside the business of a wealthy Jewish "conspirator."

– Because these creeps have the nerve to call themselves a "truth movement."

– Because they choose to spread their excrement at Ground Zero.

– Because it's a bad idea to ignore – or to deny the existence of – terrorists who say they want to kill me.

– Because it's difficult for people who were more seriously affected by the attacks to debate the creeps with dignity.

– Because firefighters thanked us for learning about what they do and standing up for them. Because the creeps make it necessary to defend the people who would enter the maws of hell to save them.

– Because this isn't just about 9/11. It's about reason vs. deliberate ignorance, the joys of learning vs. intellectual cowardice, professionalism vs. hacksterism, the scientific method vs. blind faith, compassion vs. blind hatred.

– Because the creeps have difficulty with reality, and when we confront them in the flesh, demand that they produce evidence to back their claims, and publicly demonstrate how arrogantly uninformed they are, it's undeniably real. Not only can they not ignore us, we aggravate the hell out of them.

– Because I believe that, except for a few of them, they are capable of learning and have learned and will continue to learn. It's a hard slog, because rather than taking an analytical approach to the information we present, their default position is adversarial. Very well. My position is that if they refuse to sit down to a civilized tea with the facts, they will be hammered with them. I have some projects in the works that I think will be very effective in that regard. They've been at this for years. We've taken a few small steps in a few months and have already made a big difference.

– Because ever since Abby told me that the creeps also protest outside the New York Public Library, I can't wait to go and expose that delicious irony. (and maybe read some poetry: "Beauty is truth, truth beauty...")

– Because it's fun to be mysterious when my old drinking buddies ask if I've found some new drinking buddies or something (most don't know I'm involved with this insanity: I release that information on a need-to-know basis only).

– Because the gubmint salary, health plan, and pension are highly satisfactory, our jobs are unlikely to be outsourced to Mumbai, and Dick Cheney is holding my cat at knifepoint.

 

[gumboot]

And they will be as effective in this as we have been in converting the whole world to laissez-faire capitalism. And for the same reason.

But Bush is, for the time being, giving them an advantage in that he is allowing the findamentalist Christians to propogate their belief that they are setting the stage for the return of Christ.

I think they need to read the Book of Daniel, especially the first chapter, and try to understand what will happen if they try to force God's hand in this, especially in the region in which Nebuchadreezer recieved the prophecy of the idol. God has not promisded either side a victory there.

In twenty years Islam will be the largest religion on earth. In fifty over half of all human beings will be Muslims. Numerous European nations are already feeling the bite of radical Islam.

Radical Islam will take down the west in the same way that a cancer kills. It will spread from within, until there's not enough healthy body left, and it collapses.

At current rates, I predict Radical Islam will cause the total social collapse of the United Kingdom within 75 years. Maybe sooner. (By total social collapse of the United Kingdom, I mean the United Kingdom as we know it. It may crumble into a volatile broken society, or it may just be an authoritarian Islamic state. But it won't be the United Kingdom.)

-Gumboot

 

[maccy]

In twenty years Islam will be the largest religion on earth. In fifty over half of all human beings will be Muslims. Numerous European nations are already feeling the bite of radical Islam.

Radical Islam will take down the west in the same way that a cancer kills. It will spread from within, until there's not enough healthy body left, and it collapses.

At current rates, I predict Radical Islam will cause the total social collapse of the United Kingdom within 75 years. Maybe sooner. (By total social collapse of the United Kingdom, I mean the United Kingdom as we know it. It may crumble into a volatile broken society, or it may just be an authoritarian Islamic state. But it won't be the United Kingdom.)

-Gumboot

Wihout wishing to derail this thread too much, I think you're wrong. Why should radical Islam pose a greater threat to the UK than it does to, say, Turkey?

The analogy of cancer in a body to small groups in a Nation is particularly poor, I think.

 

[maccy]

Wihout wishing to derail this thread too much, I think you're wrong. Why should radical Islam pose a greater threat to the UK than it does to, say, Turkey?

The analogy of cancer in a body to small groups in a Nation is particularly poor, I think.

Feel free to respond to this, Gumboot, but I don't really want to get embroiled in a discussion about this (if we did, it should be in Politics, anyway). I'm happy for us to say we disagree and to leave it at that.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Wihout wishing to derail this thread too much, I think you're wrong. Why should radical Islam pose a greater threat to the UK than it does to, say, Turkey?

The analogy of cancer in a body to small groups in a Nation is particularly poor, I think.

I'd suggest that radical Islam poses a greater threat to the west because there are not enough moderates in the west compared to the middle east. The west is (or at least has been till recently and still mostly is) open to freedom of speech and expression and that has allowed those with radical ideas to set up there and preach radicalism. This is changing a little, but is still allowed. Islamic countries won't for the most part allow that sort of thing, so the radicals tend to either migrate to more radical countries, or ro the west.