How Loony are the Loons?

RemoveBush said:
For those close minded individuals....

http://www.implosionworld.com/hayeshomes.htm

It was a cloudy Saturday morning late in May. That morning at 9 am, the Hayes Homes housing projects in Newark, N.J., would be dealt a fatal blow. Two 12-story buildings separated by a smokestack loomed over an otherwise graded site.
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Then it says....

In the days leading up to the implosion, crews used pneumatic drills to bore 1,300 holes within the reinforced concrete columns of the two structures and another 40 in the smokestack. It took 180 pounds of nitroglycerin-based dynamite to trigger the collapse.
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So then.... It does not take TONS as you people will lead everyone to believe.

Let's do a little math here.....

The WTC's were 110 stories tall. These buildings were 12 stories.
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STOP!!! 12-storey low-rises are to 110-storey highrises as german shepherds are to giraffes.

Continue:

RemoveBush said:
If we divide 110 by 12 we get 9.166666. Lets just make it a nice round number, say 10.

So now. They were able to blow up TWO 12 story buildings with only a 180 pounds of explosives..... Let's multiply that by our 10 and that becomes 1800 pounds between TWO buildings. Just for saftey sake lets say they added extra to ensure the collapse..... So let's make this an even 2,000 pounds! That's a 1,000 pounds per tower.

NOT 40 TONS as has been proclaimed.
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Back up! Just because you can build a 6' tall sand castle at the beach doesn't mean you can build a 55' tall sand castle using the exact same construction techniques!

You need to do some actual engineering, not just shlepping sand in your little red pail.

RemoveBush said:
"Anything that stands vertically want to fall due to gravity's effect on it," explained Loizeaux, a 25-year implosion veteran, "We really aren't blowing the structure up. We're using explosives as a catalyst.""

This is what the Truthers have been saying all along, but you refuse to accept it and even with a quote here from experts stating similar statements you will argue against it.
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We don't exactly argue against it so much as ASK FOR A SHRED OF EVIDENCE!!! ANY LITTLE SCRAP'LL DO!!!

RemoveBush said:
Yes he is not talking about the WTC's,
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Thank you for disproving your own argument so succinctly.
RemoveBush said:
but the SAME principal applies.
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NO IT GODDAMN DOESN'T!!! THE BUILDINGS YOU REFERENCE ARE STRUCTURED IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY THAN THE TWIN TOWERS!!!

RemoveBush said:
You don't need TONS of explosives to demolish buildings. This proves it, and as I promised I provided the information I stated I would previously.
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You have proven that a demolition company was successful in demolishing some 12-storey buildings. NOTHING further.

RemoveBush said:
Also notice that the buildings can be wired in very little time.....

"> 15 STRUCTURES, 4 COUNTRIES, 1 WEEKEND
An Explosive 96 Hours With the Team at Protec"

HMMMMMM...... It's just not so impossible now is it?????

After futher reading, this part may mean that the CD's were preped and they just filmed them? Needs more investigation.
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The world record for tallest building demolished by controlled demolition was the J L Hudson building in Detroit. My grandmother worked there years ago, and I watched the demolition with my own eyes.

Some facts:

MarkyX said:
Hooray for critical thinking.

I decided to do a bit of an investigation on the controlled demolition by doing something simple: Find out what is the tallest building ever taken down by controlled demolition.

http://www.controlled-demolition.com/default.asp?reqLocId=4

J.L. Hudson Department Store
Detroit, Michigan, USA
10/24/1998
Records: At 439 ft. tall Hudson’s is the tallest building & the tallest structural steel building ever imploded. At 2.2 million square feet, Hudson's is the largest single building ever imploded.
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The WTC 1 & 2 were 3.1 Times taller.

Wtc7 was 1.46 times taller.

And this is the world record we are talking about.

You can stack three Hudson Department building stores on top of each other and you will still not match up to the sheer height of the WTC 1 and 2.

How is this evidence against the CD theory? NO ONE knows how a building that tall will act because nothing like it has EVER been done. But we are to believe that it took a weekend to rig a huge building and a bunch of angry white guys with mid-80s IQ can spot it over demolition contracts, even though something this tall has never been done in demolition history?

Just a little bit of logic to hurt 'em more with.
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Are you quoting Mark Loizeaux, of CDI?

Here are some quotes from his website regarding the J L Hudson demo:
Mark Loizeaux, President of CDI, called Hudson’s the greatest dynamic structural control challenge the company had ever faced. CDI had to sever the steel in the columns and create a delay system which could simultaneously control the failure of the building’s 12 different structural configurations,
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Under CDI direction, Homrich/NASDI’s 21 man crew needed three months to investigate the complex and four months to complete preparations for CDI’s implosion design. During that period, the lower two basements of the structure were filled with engineered fill and the perimeter basement walls bermed to 1st basement level with soil to support perimeter walls which would surely have failed under soil and hydrostatic loads once the horizontal support of the Hudson’s internal structure was removed by the implosion.
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That's seven months of preparation before even starting to torch-cut beams in a building whose interior had been stripped of everything!

CDI’s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI’s implosion initiation system,
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That's almost seven miles of det-cord! In a building whose interior had been gutted in anticipation of the demolition!!!
some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition
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That's over a ton of explosive to bring down a building less than 1/3 the height of the WTC towers.

CDI’s implosion of Hudson’s set three new records:

At 439 ft. tall Hudson’s is the tallest building ever imploded, eclipsing the record held by CDI since 1975 with the felling of the 361 ft. tall Mendez Caldiera Building in Sao Palo, Brazil.

At 439 ft. tall Hudson’s is the tallest structural steel building ever imploded, eclipsing the record CDI set in 1997 with the felling 344 sq. ft. tall #500 Wood Street Building in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

At 2.2 Million square feet, Hudson’s is the largest single building ever imploded.
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How large were the crews you claim rigged the WTC 1, 2 & 7 buildings?

How long did it take them to rig these three towers?

What is the MINIMUM amount of explosive necessary to accomplish this task without torch-cutting the external support columns?

If you claim the exterior support columns were cut, a) how, b) when, c) by whom, and d) evidence for a, b, & c.

*Readability brought to you courtesy of the multi-quote button.
 
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RemoveBush, your obstinateness at using the quote function is only exceeded by your obstinateness to reason correctly.

BTW, I had to look up how to spell 'obstinateness'. Across the margin from this entry is the definition for Occam's Razor.
 
Yes, where did you go to school that they don't teach writing skills and logical reasoning?
 
JonnyFive said:
Yes, where did you go to school that they don't teach writing skills and logical reasoning?
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Or Physics. Are there any real engineers out there who would talk of "speed" when they mean "acceleration"?
 
"Kiwiwriter - You have made this statement, but you have yet to provide a single proof of your claim that the US attacked this ship."

Sure I have, but I'll post them again because you people seem to only read what you want.
http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

http://www.rense.com/general47/kidd.htm
Maybe this too, but I know you will dispute it and I would too as well. I don't say this is fact, but it is evidence. I just found this as well.

http://www.tacklingthetoughtopics.net/Eberhart/eberhart_attack_on_uss_liberty.html
"The aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, upon hearing the pleas for assistance from the crew of the USS Liberty, launched fighter aircraft to go to the Liberty’s rescue. However, the American aircraft never reached the USS Liberty. After the Saratoga’s aircraft were launched, a call came in to the Captain of the Saratoga from Secretary of Defense McNamara telling him to RECALL the aircraft. The Captain of the Saratoga REFUSED McNamara’s order. So, President Lyndon Johnson called the Captain of the Saratoga, ordering him to RECALL the aircraft, which he did. Both Johnson and McNamara were said to have commented that they did not want a war with our “ally” (i.e., Israel), and thus the other U.S. naval vessels in the area were to ALLOW the USS Liberty to be sunk, even if it meant the loss of all the American sailors and marines aboard! ((This ought to make every American’s blood boil!))"

"It is well documented that Israel attacked it, and wound up paying compensation on this issue. Even neo-Nazis, who hate Israel and Jews with a passion, blame this attack on Israel."

Sure, everything is HATE with you people! Terrorists "hate" us because of our democracy! The world "hates" us because we are so great. Not even close..... I love my country, or at least what my country once was, and this is not why people want to attack us. They attack us because we try to tell them how they should live. So stop with the "hate Israel and Jews" crap. Sure there are going to be people who hate others, but to continuously use that as an excuss is getting old.

"Can you prove that the United States has EVER launched a "false-flag" attack on its own citizens?""

Sure, but I'm not "28K" or who ever you are refering to.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/bombs/bombs.html
JMBvX3P8IjE
OKC! Once again... First, the bomb squad was just down the street performing an exercise for the exact same thing. Second, the bomb squad removed SEVERAL bombs attacked to several of the cores that did not go off. How did Tim McVeigh gain access to the building to plant those bombs and how would he set them off? Third, there were reports of other suspects involved, which is now being brouth up again!

Now on too 9/11! There were Isreali agents that were caught, but quickly released on 9/11. Bush refused for over 1 1/2 years to investigate the issue. Refused to fund the investigation properly. Refused to testify regarding the matter. Did not give the commission subpeana power so they could do a proper investigation.

You know what? Only a person that has something to hide fights that hard and puts up that many obsticles into finding the truth. This is just like the mobster mentality! I know.... Your gonna say they just did not want to show how unprepared they were for 9/11. WRONG! The Secret Service (SS) did not do their job on 9/11 with the president, with him being in a dangerous situation. AF1 was threatened by CODED language "AF1 is next". How do "terrorists" obtain CODED language for AF1 and call the government to make a statement like that? HMMMMMM!

I have already discussed 7/7, so no need to bring it up again.
 
AGAIN people DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS TROLL UNTIL HE LEARNS THE VALUE OF THE QUOTE FUNCTION. yOU ARE ONLY ENGOURAGING HIS BAD BEHAVIOR.
 
"ConspiRaider - I had an FCC 3rd Class License once, back in 1973. Then I had another one for my on-air DJ career (short-lived but fun)."

Good for you..... I still hold my 3rd class licence, but I will bet that YOU could not maintain a transmitter with that licence? I held an EQUIVENT FCC 1st class licence that allowed me to MAINTAIN transmitters.
 
"A W Smith - добро ii1 ответило той одной странице задней но wont I обеспечивает соединение. Вы как раз искать и отвечать к им в виду того что вы отказываете использовать функции форума.
all replies will be in russian untill you use the quote function"

You should be careful, you don't know what languages a person may or maynot speak. My wife is Russian.

I am holding my thumb between my fore finger and my middle finger with my fist clenched to you.
 
"Not that particular clip, but then the camera was focused in tightly on one part who's to say? I have looked at most all of the video's out there and the explanations of both sides. Again, the ONLY plausible result given by the data and PHYSICS is CD.

Horatius - And what physics is that again, O Injunear?"

Newtons 3 laws, Conservation of Energy, Conservation of Momentum, etc...

RemoveBush, I urge you to use the quote function to properly attribute authorship to the posts you are quoting. Failing to do that in the future may result in you being suspended from the forum.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Patricio Elicer
 
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"Anything that stands vertically want to fall due to gravity's effect on it," explained Loizeaux, a 25-year implosion veteran, "We really aren't blowing the structure up. We're using explosives as a catalyst.""

This is what the Truthers have been saying all along, but you refuse to accept it and even with a quote here from experts stating similar statements you will argue against it.
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no, the truthers are saying gravity did not contain enough energy to pulverize the concrete as we have seen, you yourself said it would take "a hell of a lot" more energy

are you now claiming that gravity did have enough energy?
 
Sorry, the D-minus still holds...

RemoveBush said:
"Kiwiwriter - You have made this statement, but you have yet to provide a single proof of your claim that the US attacked this ship."

Sure I have, but I'll post them again because you people seem to only read what you want.
http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

http://www.rense.com/general47/kidd.htm
Maybe this too, but I know you will dispute it and I would too as well. I don't say this is fact, but it is evidence. I just found this as well.

http://www.tacklingthetoughtopics.net/Eberhart/eberhart_attack_on_uss_liberty.html
"The aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, upon hearing the pleas for assistance from the crew of the USS Liberty, launched fighter aircraft to go to the Liberty’s rescue. However, the American aircraft never reached the USS Liberty. After the Saratoga’s aircraft were launched, a call came in to the Captain of the Saratoga from Secretary of Defense McNamara telling him to RECALL the aircraft. The Captain of the Saratoga REFUSED McNamara’s order. So, President Lyndon Johnson called the Captain of the Saratoga, ordering him to RECALL the aircraft, which he did. Both Johnson and McNamara were said to have commented that they did not want a war with our “ally” (i.e., Israel), and thus the other U.S. naval vessels in the area were to ALLOW the USS Liberty to be sunk, even if it meant the loss of all the American sailors and marines aboard! ((This ought to make every American’s blood boil!))"

"It is well documented that Israel attacked it, and wound up paying compensation on this issue. Even neo-Nazis, who hate Israel and Jews with a passion, blame this attack on Israel."

Sure, everything is HATE with you people! Terrorists "hate" us because of our democracy! The world "hates" us because we are so great. Not even close..... I love my country, or at least what my country once was, and this is not why people want to attack us. They attack us because we try to tell them how they should live. So stop with the "hate Israel and Jews" crap. Sure there are going to be people who hate others, but to continuously use that as an excuss is getting old.

"Can you prove that the United States has EVER launched a "false-flag" attack on its own citizens?""

Sure, but I'm not "28K" or who ever you are refering to.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/bombs/bombs.html
JMBvX3P8IjE
OKC! Once again... First, the bomb squad was just down the street performing an exercise for the exact same thing. Second, the bomb squad removed SEVERAL bombs attacked to several of the cores that did not go off. How did Tim McVeigh gain access to the building to plant those bombs and how would he set them off? Third, there were reports of other suspects involved, which is now being brouth up again!

Now on too 9/11! There were Isreali agents that were caught, but quickly released on 9/11. Bush refused for over 1 1/2 years to investigate the issue. Refused to fund the investigation properly. Refused to testify regarding the matter. Did not give the commission subpeana power so they could do a proper investigation.

You know what? Only a person that has something to hide fights that hard and puts up that many obsticles into finding the truth. This is just like the mobster mentality! I know.... Your gonna say they just did not want to show how unprepared they were for 9/11. WRONG! The Secret Service (SS) did not do their job on 9/11 with the president, with him being in a dangerous situation. AF1 was threatened by CODED language "AF1 is next". How do "terrorists" obtain CODED language for AF1 and call the government to make a statement like that? HMMMMMM!

I have already discussed 7/7, so no need to bring it up again.
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Your websites are conspiracy theory nutters. Jeff Rense's web page is heavy on support for neo-Nazis like Ernst Zundel (sorry, I shouldn't call him a neo-Nazi, he says he's just a Nazi), and UFO wacko-dom. The Tackling Tough Topics website is an anti-Catholic "end times" web page. The leadoff page on Liberty is at least connected to the crew, but I'm going to have to look at it closer...it seems to have a lot of penknives to grind, as well.

And it's interesting that you've moved on to Oklahoma City and the "Israeli agents" lunacy. Other folks have investigated that case and even McVeigh himself, having been sentenced to death and therefore having no reason to lie, has indignantly denounced conspiracy theorists for suggesting there was a greater plot than him, Terry Nichols, a van, and fertilizer.

As for the comments about the Israeli agents, and bringing in the Liberty, now I have to start asking questions about the motivations behind your theories, and who you think is really behind it all. The long versions would be that I'd like to know what you think about the activities of Jews and Jewish organizations and their impact on history and modern society and the future of the world. I'd also like to know your thoughts on Holocaust denial and revisionism, and the ideas expressed by Ernst Zundel, Germar Rudolf, David Irving, and the Institute for Historical Review.

The short version: What do you think about Jews...and do you think that Hitler gave them what they deserve, and did he get a bad rap for it?

In any case, there have been investigations of the Liberty fiasco, the Israelis paid compensation, their air force and Navy made this mess, what is the point? And for that matter, what exactly would be the point of the US Navy blasting open its own intelligence-gathering ship?
 
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