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How is Donald Trump not a Republican?

Tony Stark

Philosopher
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
9,626
He is the freaking nominee of their trash party and most rank and file Republicans and elected Republican "leaders" support him. So how could he possibly not be a Republican? Obviously, he makes them look bad, but that's their problem.
 
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Because he doesn't use the dog whistle, instead opting for the loud speaker. Republicans want to pretend they aren't like Trump, choosing to use code instead of letting people know what they really believe.
 
Conservatives has always been great adherents of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
But simply by trying to map Trump's policies on historically republican policies we can see that there is very little overlap.

Free Trade, Immigration, Deficit Spending are all prime topics on which the party is not in line with its nominee.


But by virtue of the nomination, the GOP has declared that, at least for this election, Trump's policies are their policies: every Republican who didn't refuse to endorse Trump on July 21st can not disavow him on policies.
As the saying goes: cling together, swing together.
 
Conservatives has always been great adherents of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
But simply by trying to map Trump's policies on historically republican policies we can see that there is very little overlap.

Free Trade, Immigration, Deficit Spending are all prime topics on which the party is not in line with its nominee.


But by virtue of the nomination, the GOP has declared that, at least for this election, Trump's policies are their policies: every Republican who didn't refuse to endorse Trump on July 21st can not disavow him on policies.
As the saying goes: cling together, swing together.
There is huge overlap. The Republican establishment wants big tax cuts for rich people, has no problem at all with deficit spending if a Republican is President, wants to repeal Obamacare, likes war crimes, hates the Iran deal and diplomacy in general, ect.
 
They also want to eliminate state lines for all medical insurance, giving insurance companies power to "deregulate" thus making huge $$$ while being able to screw the non-wealthy.

Oh, and punish doctors and women who opt for abortion.

And oppress non-white, non-christians.
 
There is huge overlap. The Republican establishment wants big tax cuts for rich people, has no problem at all with deficit spending if a Republican is President, wants to repeal Obamacare, likes war crimes, hates the Iran deal and diplomacy in general, ect.

right.

Just like most Trump supporters are one-issue voters (Immigration), most establishment Republicans are one(two tops) issue representatives: cut taxes for the rich and deregulate everything.
 
At this point there is no doubt that Donald Trump is the single worst major party presidential candidate in living memory, almost certainly the worst since the Civil War, and arguably the worst in the history of this nation. He is boastful and ignorant and petty, disdainful of the Constitution, a racist and a sexist, the enabler of the worst elements of society, either the willing tool of, or the useful idiot for, Vladimir Putin, an admirer of despots, an insecure braggart, a sexual assaulter, a man who refuses to honor contracts, and a bore.

He is, in sum, just about the biggest ******* in all of the United States of America. He’s lucky that Syrian dictator Bashar Hafez al-Assad is out there keeping him from taking the global title, not that he wouldn’t try for that, too, should he become president. It’s appalling that he is the standard bearer for one of the two major political parties in the United States. It’s appalling that he is a candidate for the presidency at all.

But note well: Donald Trump is not a black swan, an unforeseen event erupting upon an unsuspecting Republican Party. He is the end result of conscious and deliberate choices by the GOP, going back decades, to demonize its opponents, to polarize and obstruct, to pursue policies that enfeeble the political weal and to yoke the bigot and the ignorant to their wagon and to drive them by dangling carrots that they only ever intended to feed to the rich. Trump’s road to the candidacy was laid down and paved by the Southern Strategy, by Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove, by Fox News and the Tea Party, and by the smirking cynicism of three generations of GOP operatives, who have been fracking the white middle and working classes for years, crushing their fortunes with their social and economic policies, never imagining it would cause an earthquake.
More.
 
Well, as most political parties are a loose confederation of groups with different ideas, you have to first answer what, exactly, IS a Republican.

It seems to me that it's whatever the blabbermouth on the barstool next to you says it is.

When you hear someone saying "He's no Republican" you have to find out which group they're speaking from. A TP devotee is speaking of the old guard. The old guard is speaking of the TP. The Log Cabin Republican(delusional as they may be) is speaking of, well, everyone in the party.

The old litmus tests don't hold. You see the most rabid Trump supporters being on the Fundie end of the spectrum. They're the most outraged by lewd behavior and condemn him roundly but say they support him. Because? Because they think he's going to fight their bete noir, abortion. What do they base this on? Who knows. He's the weakest GOP anti-abortion candidate out there.

The individual complaining Republican determine who's not a Republican based on "Does he/she hate the same things/people as I do." And most of that involves blacks, browns and them homo sorts. Forget fiscal conservativism, small government and family values. That's all nonsense. It's based on who they hate more.

And they've got the biggest hater of the mostest and his despicable handlers running the campaign. I'd say there's no question that he's a Republican; he's perhaps the quintessential "New Republican".
 
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right.

Just like most Trump supporters are one-issue voters (Immigration), most establishment Republicans are one(two tops) issue representatives: cut taxes for the rich and deregulate everything.

I think there are single issue voters who dislike certain planks of the Republican Party, but they view abortion or gun rights so fervently, that they feel they have no choice but to vote Republican.

I know Republicans who are not characterizations of Scrooge talking about decreasing the surplus population.

I believe, perhaps foolishly, that both parties would shape up a great deal if the were a viable third (or fourth) party. But as long as the biggest states are winner-take-all in the Electoral College and partisans draw congressional district lines no progress will be made in that area. An alternative voting system (such as those successfully used by other countries) would go a long way to showing this dysfunctional duopoly how dissatisfied voters are.
 
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Conservatives has always been great adherents of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

That might be true but in this case I think they have a point. Trump could've easily decided to run as a democrat and be crazy in a totally different way. The fact that many Republican despise him sure shows that he's not the kind of candidate that they want. I guess this applies to Hillary to a degree, however.
 
That might be true but in this case I think they have a point. Trump could've easily decided to run as a democrat and be crazy in a totally different way. The fact that many Republican despise him sure shows that he's not the kind of candidate that they want. I guess this applies to Hillary to a degree, however.

Donald never could have won a Democratic primary.
 
Irrelevant to my point. He could have played the democrat and stood a chance of winning on his name alone. He doesn't seem to be much of a Republican to me.
 
He's not a Republican. He's not a Democrat. He's not a politician and probably doesn't give a crap about any party affiliation, deep down. He's a tv and movie actor, and he's doing what he does best: playing a role. Since Politics is mostly just a spectacle for entertainment, this fits perfectly.
 
Donald never could have won a Democratic primary.

I dunno about that. You're assuming "the Trump we now know". That's a Mark Burnett invention. Assuming that all that bluster and glitz was surrounding a phony liberal? I believe the Democrats would get behind him. My assumption, though, is that Trump's a phony conservative. He switched back and forth between parties because he has no beliefs. His new political movement is Trumpism.

The Dems have a history of getting behind frumps. We sort of like that "everyman" charm. But they adore, to a fault, some of the most imperious even royal characters. FDR and Kennedy. And in the case of Kennedy, that included his brothers and his son and several relatives.

A whole new family of shiny well-dressed limousine liberals? I might be voting against 'em, but a whole lot of party people would line up behind 'em.
 
He is the freaking nominee of their trash party and most rank and file Republicans and elected Republican "leaders" support him. So how could he possibly not be a Republican? Obviously, he makes them look bad, but that's their problem.

Hey, is being trash an upgrade from being deplorable, or....?
 

"But note well: Donald Trump is not a black swan, an unforeseen event erupting upon an unsuspecting Republican Party. He is the end result of conscious and deliberate choices by the GOP, going back decades, to demonize its opponents, to polarize and obstruct, to pursue policies that enfeeble the political weal and to yoke the bigot and the ignorant to their wagon and to drive them by dangling carrots that they only ever intended to feed to the rich. Trump’s road to the candidacy was laid down and paved by the Southern Strategy, by Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove, by Fox News and the Tea Party, and by the smirking cynicism of three generations of GOP operatives, who have been fracking the white middle and working classes for years, crushing their fortunes with their social and economic policies, never imagining it would cause an earthquake.
Broadly correct, of course, bit I think it misses something important about the Tea Party. To look at this one would think the GOP creatd the Tea Party, but it didn't. The Tea Party started as a local joke which went viral, but the Tea Party as an organisation was created by Koch money, Koch professional organisers, and Murdoch's Fox (arguably Ailes's Fox). It became an independent power which could strike down regular Republicans in primaries and trash them on Fox, outside any RNC or Rove control. Entryism at its finest. The Tea Party is not Republican.

Republicans are now required to sign up to a list of absolutes or face the wrath of the Tea Party come their next primaries. Extremism and homogeneity are enforced, and so an array of identikit candidates arguing furiously around the fringes of policy is presented come the election. Put a Trump in there - also not a Republican - and this is what happens. He's outside Tea Party control, and has captured its followers.

Without the Koch's giving up on the third-party strategy and turning to entryism none of this would have happened. The loonies would have remained in the wards, not running the asylum as they are.
 
He's not a Republican in the sense that he shows no loyalty to the issues that define the party.

He is a Republican in the sense that he's registered as one and, more importantly, has been nominated by the party to run for president.

Is this so hard to understand?
 
He's not a Republican in the sense that he shows no loyalty to the issues that define the party.

He is a Republican in the sense that he's registered as one and, more importantly, has been nominated by the party to run for president.

Is this so hard to understand?

But what are the issues where he differs?
 

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