How Gun Makers Can Help Us

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

... clip ...

WHOA...WHAT?!
How exactly do you "start a fight" with somebody over the Internet?
Do you have a gun that can target people over TCP/IP?

Well, since I've apparently heard all the reasonable, totally not-at-all emotional arguments from some calm, level-headed gun owners, maybe I should go check out this "anti-gun crowd" that I'm a part of.

I'm sorry - I meant, "you," as, "you all."

If you think that people only do this over the internet, you need to get out more.

Anti-gunners will stop just short of hitting someone they know has a gun (one majotr reason no one knows I carry, the other one being the inevitable, "man with a gun," call to the police that leaves me sitting in the back of the cruiser while the police explain to people who don't want to understand that I'm ALLOWED to have a gun).

I don't know why. Maybe they're yelling at the top of their lungs and waving their fists around to prove that they're not afraid of us, but if they really DID think that anyone with a firearm is a hazard to life and limb, they sure choose a funny way to do it!

The argument always seems the same, however; Allusions to children playing cowboys and indians, references to movies and fantasy stories, accusations of retarded intellectual and emotional development, insulting and demeaning stuff like you put in your post.

If you can't be right, be insulting!

So: In letting you off the hook because you're using your Internet Anonymity to avoid personal confrontation while slinging harsh on something like 20% of all Americans, why do you suppose others do it in person?

[ETA] Oh - and- about the Delicious Candy Campaign, hereinafter referred to as the DCC, I think that's a great idea! Cities all around the country have done gun buy-backs, and it's gotten a few pieces out of criminal hands because wives and girlfriends have turned them in and such.

Thing is, such efforts are usually pure governmental showboating and have an insignificant effect on firearms violence.

I would still support and contribute voluntarily to the DCC because it targets the right demographic, mostly. [/ETA]

 

[GreyICE]

Who did? You have not provided any incident of a public school shooting before the 1990's where a student(s) went berzerk.

I already mentioned Whitman and he was 24 at the time of the shooting. He was beyond the influence of his parents, not to mention he killed his mother.

Why do you feel slighted at the mention of poor parenting? Or the mention of the overwhelming failure of the liberal doctrine controlling the American public school system? The two shooters could just be bad seeds as well. Does that make you happy?

Or how about I feel insulted that you can't even bother to verify basic facts before you spew hatred like a backed up sewer main? I suppose that V. Tech was the result of liberals, but somehow another school shooting with a similar age group was just one disturbed man?

But here, have fun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway_South_Junior_High_School_shooting

Has the media accelerated the trend since Columbine with positive reinforcement? Yeah, probably.

Oh, and what else liberal parenting has brought us?

Decreasing violent crime, decresing theft, decreasing school murders:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/iscs07.pdf

Apparently liberal parenting is working quite well!

 

[senorpogo]

Or how about I feel insulted that you can't even bother to verify basic facts before you spew hatred like a backed up sewer main? I suppose that V. Tech was the result of liberals, but somehow another school shooting with a similar age group was just one disturbed man?

But here, have fun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway_South_Junior_High_School_shooting

Has the media accelerated the trend since Columbine with positive reinforcement? Yeah, probably.

Oh, and what else liberal parenting has brought us?

Decreasing violent crime, decresing theft, decreasing school murders:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/iscs07.pdf

Apparently liberal parenting is working quite well!

Not trying to be a jerk here, but maybe this conversation would be better in a new thread. And I don't mean that in a bad way - god knows I'm a derailer.

I just really think it's something worth discussing in further detail somewhere else, some place better suited. God knows this too, I've got a lot to say about Columbine.

 

[senorpogo]

I wrote a detailed account back on page two....And they do not recklessly

wave their guns around or even draw their weapon unless it is the only option

left.

Can't wait for this response which I will read as I listen to my pressed vinyl version of Chinese Democracy.

 

[Drudgewire]

god knows I'm a derailer.

On the subject of derailing, this is as good a time as any to mention your avatar is my only tattoo.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I'm sorry - I meant, "you," as, "you all."

If you think that people only do this over the internet, you need to get out more.

Oh, I've seen plenty of people go off in person! I've campaigned for Ralph Nader, after all.

I don't know why. Maybe they're yelling at the top of their lungs and waving their fists around to prove that they're not afraid of us, but if they really DID think that anyone with a firearm is a hazard to life and limb, they sure choose a funny way to do it!

....

So: In letting you off the hook because you're using your Internet Anonymity to avoid personal confrontation while slinging harsh on something like 20% of all Americans, why do you suppose others do it in person?

No idea! As a matter of fact, I've never, ever seen a heated argument over gun control in person, and I come from a pretty liberal town. So, I have no clue what you're talking about here.

 

[Drudgewire]

[ETA] Oh - and- about the Delicious Candy Campaign, hereinafter referred to as the DCC, I think that's a great idea! Cities all around the country have done gun buy-backs, and it's gotten a few pieces out of criminal hands because wives and girlfriends have turned them in and such.

Thing is, such efforts are usually pure governmental showboating and have an insignificant effect on firearms violence.

I would still support and contribute voluntarily to the DCC because it targets the right demographic, mostly. [/ETA]

You know who loves gun buyback campaigns? Gun dealers. They unload all of their crappy used stock for a profit.

Guarantee you if they ever have one where I live there won't be a $99 Hi-Point available for 200 miles, because I'll have purchased every last one of them.

 

[Cicero]

Or how about I feel insulted that you can't even bother to verify basic facts before you spew hatred like a backed up sewer main? I suppose that V. Tech was the result of liberals, but somehow another school shooting with a similar age group was just one disturbed man?

But here, have fun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway_South_Junior_High_School_shooting

Has the media accelerated the trend since Columbine with positive reinforcement? Yeah, probably.

Oh, and what else liberal parenting has brought us?

Decreasing violent crime, decresing theft, decreasing school murders:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/iscs07.pdf

Apparently liberal parenting is working quite well!

In the 30-year period (1960-1989) you actually managed to find one student who killed another student with a firearm at his school. And this kid got the ammo from his parents!

How many did Klebold and Harris killl? 12?

Now how many public school shootings committed by students of that school have there been since 1989? Over 25?

Next you will count Kent State as a school shooting.

Yeah. Hooray for liberals! You guys finally found something you are good at, raising predators.

 

[robeeb]

Axiom Blade,

I was hoping you would answer my questions I asked you in comment #119 on page three. I'd like to hear your thoughts, and discuss further your ideas on self defense.

 

[senorpogo]

On the subject of derailing, this is as good a time as any to mention your avatar is my only tattoo.

That is very cool.

Oddly, your avatar is my only tattoo.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Axiom Blade,

I was hoping you would answer my questions I asked you in comment #119 on page three. I'd like to hear your thoughts, and discuss further your ideas on self defense.

Your story is very compelling. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I'm glad to hear nobody was hurt.

I don't know of any weapons that would make a good substitute for a handgun in that situation. Perhaps some models of taser would be effective? I am still assessing the cost vs. benefit of guns to society, and self-defense is certainly an important part of that equation.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

You know who loves gun buyback campaigns? Gun dealers. They unload all of their crappy used stock for a profit.

Guarantee you if they ever have one where I live there won't be a $99 Hi-Point available for 200 miles, because I'll have purchased every last one of them.

As long as it's a voluntary program, privately funded, and offers something fairly innocuous (a $100 McDonald's gift certificate springs to mind, but there's some would consider that more dangerous than a Hi-Point) I'm good with it, and I'd donate.

I support the Indiana State Free Trigger Lock program, and there is NOTHING more futile. People with enough heart to care about the wrong fingers on their triggers and enough brains to do something about it already have trigger locks or something similar, and those that lack either the heart or brains won't use 'em. I still hope, in my starry-eyed, eternal optimist kind of way that it will keep someone from having their kid shoot someone's little sibling.

Similarly, the buy-backs do sometimes get a criminal's firearm out of the venue because some baby's sensible Mama doesn't want the thing in her home.

I'm not averse to spending my money on stuff like that. I'm just not in love with the idea of a city government similarly spending everybody's money so they can look like they're doing something about an underlying problem, of which illegal firearms ownership is just the most visible symptom.

 

[robeeb]

Your story is very compelling. I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I'm glad to hear nobody was hurt.

I don't know of any weapons that would make a good substitute for a handgun in that situation. Perhaps some models of taser would be effective? I am still assessing the cost vs. benefit of guns to society, and self-defense is certainly an important part of that equation.

Hey, thanks for the reply. You know, after I asked you the question of an alternative, I got thinking about Tasers. At the time of the incident, tasers did exist, but they were not something that was readily available. The new breed of Tasers are obviously available, but, to the best of my knowledge, they are all single-shot weapons. Mind you, my expertise in in the field of gunsmithing, not less lethal weapons. There may be a multi shot taser out there. I'll do a little googling and see whats available. Still, I would not have wanted a taser in my situation.

I must say, that encounter was nothing like I thought it would be. Nothing like hollywood or TV portrays. I came out the winner, and yet it was the most sickening feeling I've ever felt. The adrenaline rush, the fight or flight reflex, and the overall gravity of the situation has burned an unforgettable feeling and image in my mind. They were card carrying bad guys, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. But I find myself thankful I didn't have to shoot. There were three witnesses to the assault. They said that I was cool as a cucumber and my commands and stance led them to believe I was law enforcement. My memory of it has me yelling at the top of my lungs at these guys, and I thought I was shaking, or moving all over the place, trying to keep the front sight in view while aiming at each of them back and forth. Witnesses said I was steady and moving very little. You get tunnel vision in a situation like that as well. It's amazing how the bodies natural response and subsequent release of all those chemicals in a fight or flight situation can alter a persons perceptions.

 

[WildCat]

[The only option I had left was to draw my handgun and order them to drop

the weapons, back off, and get on the ground. Fortunately, they decided

to do as I ordered them to, and I did not have to fire my weapon.

See, some here would say that doesn't count as defending yourself with a handgun because you didn't kill anyone. The mind boggles...

 

[Drudgewire]

That is very cool.

Oddly, your avatar is my only tattoo.

They go together so well there should be a punk kittens variety of Flying Dog ale.

 

[robeeb]

See, some here would say that doesn't count as defending yourself with a handgun because you didn't kill anyone. The mind boggles...

I know what you mean. When they saw the gun, they surrendered their weapons, got face down on the ground, and did not move or try to get up. At that point, If I were to shoot them, that would be murder. So, if some people have a problem with me not murdering two assailants who have very obviously given up, well, that's their problem I suppose.

 

[WildCat]

I know what you mean. When they saw the gun, they surrendered their weapons, got face down on the ground, and did not move or try to get up.

You escalated the situation! You're only allowed to defend yourself with like force, so what you should have done is told them to sit tight while you throw your gun in a neutral corner and go get a baseball bat somewhere.

Or so it's been argued...

 

[Axiom_Blade]

See, some here would say that doesn't count as defending yourself with a handgun because you didn't kill anyone. The mind boggles...

You escalated the situation! You're only allowed to defend yourself with like force, so what you should have done is told them to sit tight while you throw your gun in a neutral corner and go get a baseball bat somewhere.

Or so it's been argued...

Are you a farmer?


Because you've got a lot of straw...