How far will the excuses to shoot go?

[Chris_Halkides]

interpretations vary

Actually, I'm not familiar with reports that suggest he was kneeling at any time during his actual confrontation with the officer. (Its a long thread so maybe I missed it.)

Link to previous comment here. Different people who have viewed the video have different impressions of it.

 

[Nessie]

That the word "only" means something, and misapplying it when describing my statements is to present an utterly false representation of my views. Which means either all the people of Scotland are bad at trading comprehension or else they are liars.

The word only does not appear in my post. You said you liked living in a country when people who attack cops should expect to be shot. Turning your argument back on its self that all Americans are bad a comprehension or they are lairs, which of course is rubbish and a stupid thing to say about the Scots.

So do you think the cop was justifed in shooting the student?

 

[tyr_13]

'Kneeling with his hands up' certainly describes a wrestler shooting. Shooting is where the person advances very quickly, like a shot, by sliding down on one knee while pressing forward, usually with your hands out in front and raise slightly to grab with. I wouldn't put it past someone unfamiliar with the technique to call it something else if they were also biased to protect the subject.

But there is video so the speculation about it doesn't mean much. Maybe he did kneel and put his hands up at one point. If one doesn't trust the police chief because he's biased, one shouldn't trust the family or their attorney because they're biased as well. A court or grand jury will tell.

 

[Belz...]

It does not stop them. So you would kill people with mental health issues and those on bad trips?

Wow. Humans are really awesome at intentionally misunderstanding one another.

 

[WildCat]

This thread has moved on a bit since my last post and I admit I haven't read much of it, but I just read a more detailed account of the story, and the guy apparently was given LSD by someone (apparently, not with the guy's consent), and he flipped out but was apparently trying to go to the police for help. This took place at the campus police station.

What account did you read that is consistent with the guy looking for help?

 

[TragicMonkey]

The word only does not appear in my post. You said you liked living in a country when people who attack cops should expect to be shot. Turning your argument back on its self that all Americans are bad a comprehension or they are lairs, which of course is rubbish and a stupid thing to say about the Scots.

So do you think the cop was justifed in shooting the student?

The word "only" very much appears in your post. Scroll up.

 

[WildCat]

You don't think there are situations when a police officer should call for backup and wait to act until backup arrives?

Yes of course, but leaving a potentially dangerous lunatic/drug crazed guy runing around in public isn't one of them.

And why couldn't he "run away from danger" to the extent of going back into the station to retrieve his non-lethal means of subduing someone that he foolishly didn't bring with him in the first place when responding to the guy?

Maybe he was worried that the guy would hurt someone in the meantime.

Am I wrong in my reading of the news articles that this happened at the campus police department?

No. And?

This sort of pointless comment doesn't make the thread any less dumb. If you don't choose to engage in this discussion in good faith, you're free not to.

It's all in good faith. I'm not the one cranking out the straw men.

 

[WildCat]

Just like you would if you had somepne pointing a gun at you and telling you to dance.

Except no one was doing that.

But if lies are all that's left in your arsenal...

 

[WildCat]

At one point he knelt down. He also had his hands up, palms toward the officer at another point.

Like this?

Is that a submissive stance to you?

 

[WildCat]

Your straw man is dumb, I agree.

I don't think that term means what you think it means.

 

[Nessie]

Wow. Humans are really awesome at intentionally misunderstanding one another.

This is not misunderstanding. There are some here such as TragicMonkey and Triforcharity who say anyone who attacks the police deserve to be shot. They made no distinctions, they said anybody.

So not unreasonably I asked if that included the mentally ill and students high on drugs, people who are out of their mind and who are not attacking out of malice or to avoid arrest. People who cannot be held fully responsible for their actions.

I find it staggering I have yet to get much of a response and have been pilloried for asking such a question.

I suspect it is because as soon as people say, no the police should not shoot students high on drugs or the mentally ill, they cannot then support the cop who shot the student. Neither can they say all people who attack the police deserves to be shot.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Like this?

Is that a submissive stance to you?

We don't know what stance he took. We do know that people who have seen the video gave accounts of it that are not easy to reconcile.

 

[WildCat]

We don't know what stance he took. We do know that people who have seen the video gave accounts of it that are not easy to reconcile.

We also know the kid was a wrestler, and was described by both the reporter and the police who reviewed the video as in a fighting stance or a boxing stance.

The only person who gave a different account is the lawyer hired by the family. He certainly wasn't hired to agree with the premise that the kid was acting aggressively.

 

[Nessie]

The word "only" very much appears in your post. Scroll up.

Got the post now. So when you said anyone who attacks the police deserves to be shot, do you mean everyone, no matter the circumstances?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

He had a baton and spray, also

We also know the kid was a wrestler, and was described by both the reporter and the police who reviewed the video as in a fighting stance or a boxing stance.

The only person who gave a different account is the lawyer hired by the family. He certainly wasn't hired to agree with the premise that the kid was acting aggressively.

I believe that you are mistaken. More than one reporter saw the video. "On the video, Collar walks slowly toward a campus police station door once and then walks away. Seconds later, he walks back to the station and pounds violently on a glass window. He then walks away from the police station again before an officer, Trevis Austin, comes out with his gun drawn and pointed at the naked student. Collar approaches Austin with his arms outstretched and palms open toward Austin."

Here is a link to some breaking news. Apparently the officer had more than a gun with him; he had pepper spray and a baton, according to the AP.

 

[Nessie]

Yes of course, but leaving a potentially dangerous lunatic/drug crazed guy runing around in public isn't one of them.


Maybe he was worried that the guy would hurt someone in the meantime.


No. And?


It's all in good faith. I'm not the one cranking out the straw men.

So the potential attacks on others, considering no one else was there outside the polcie office, why is that not a strawman?

Was he that dangerous, naked and behaving odly, trying to get the attention of the police and not going anywhere else that he had to be dealt with instantly?

A short dealy as back up arrived or getting other kit was ceratinly an option for the cop.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

shooting in wrestling

'Kneeling with his hands up' certainly describes a wrestler shooting. Shooting is where the person advances very quickly, like a shot, by sliding down on one knee while pressing forward, usually with your hands out in front and raise slightly to grab with. I wouldn't put it past someone unfamiliar with the technique to call it something else if they were also biased to protect the subject.

Do you mean something like in this video? I would say it is impossible to know with certainty what was in Gil Collar's mind, one way or another, either at this juncture or why he chose to go to the police station in the first place. (In response to other comments) I think it is a reasonable inference that he was seeking assistance.

 

[TragicMonkey]

No I have repeated asked for answers about what others have said, I wanted more detail and clarification about their claims and comments. That is what you do if with a proper investigation.

Again nice try, nice ad hominem.

All the people of Scotland twice misrepresented my position since the last post where I pointed out an earlier misrepresentation.

 

[carlitos]

In my self-defense training, which consists entirely of watching the ABC After School Special on angel dust featuring Scott Baio and or Helen Hunt, you don't want to take on a drugged up wrestler with pepper spray or a baton. YMMV.

 

[Nessie]

All the people of Scotland twice misrepresented my position since the last post where I pointed out an earlier misrepresentation.

Show me and I will try and clear the matter up for you.