How does the Qur'an stack up to the Bible?

Actually I'm kind of amused at the idea of a Jihadi spending eternity trying to watch the match only to be drug to Bed, Bath and Beyond by 71 virgins because Yankee Candle Company is having a sale.


Add to that, the whole reason they ARE virgins is because they were foot-ugly, shapeless old bags who nobody in their right mind would boff anyway, and their promised reward was to finally have a man in paradise. Albeit on a timeshare basis.
 
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Now, I remember reading somewhere (can't remember - no point asking!), that the '71 Virgins' promise was actually a mistranslation (not in the usual revisionist sense where religious types are trying to handwave away the word of their chosen god that doesn't sit right with modern society). Apparently, there are no virgins to be had.

You're referring to Christoph Luxenberg's crackpot thesis that the Qur'an wasn't written in Arabic after all, but is actually a Syrio-Aramaic language text, and that Muslims themselves apparently haven't noticed this for over 1500 years and so have been misreading their own holy book all this time. His book on the subject garnered a lot of popular press attention when it was released, but was thoroughly examined and rejected by actual academics and experts (see, for instance, the papers by Francois de Bois, Stefan Wild, and Walid Saleh in The Qurʾān in Context: Historical and Literary Investigations into the Qurʾānic Milieu).
 
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You're referring to Christoph Luxenberg's crackpot thesis that the Qur'an wasn't written in Arabic after all, but is actually a Syrio-Aramaic text. His book on the subject garnered a lot of popular press attention when it was released, but was thoroughly examined and rejected by actual academics and experts (see, for instance, the papers by Francois de Bois, Stefan Wild, and Walid Saleh in The Qurn in Context: Historical and Literary Investigations into the Qurnic Milieu).


No, it wasn't that I was reading, but the information may well have come from there.

Shame if it's not true!
 
No, it wasn't that I was reading, but the information may well have come from there.

You were probably just reading one of the news stories about Luxenberg's claims. The whole "Muslim martyrs don't get virgins, they get grapes! 'Virgins' is just a mistranslation!" thing was all over the press for a while, and that came straight from Luxenberg's book.
 
You were probably just reading one of the news stories about Luxenberg's claims. The whole "Muslim martyrs don't get virgins, they get grapes! 'Virgins' is just a mistranslation!" thing was all over the press for a while, and that came straight from Luxenberg's book.


Fair enough. That'd be even funnier if it were true though!

"Grapes?! I was promised virgins!"

"Ummm... These grapes are freshly picked, if that helps?"
 
No hair pie in the sky in the great bye and bye.


LOL!

It's interesting though - what does it say about these people and their (interpretation of) religion, that the ultimate motivator for them is sex with 71 different virginal women. I'm a big fan of doing the sex, and a choice of women would be nice, but is it something I'm prepared to die for? No.

I have to wonder if these people would be so eager to die for the cause if the reward was mainly grapes, and not women.
 
LOL!

It's interesting though - what does it say about these people and their (interpretation of) religion, that the ultimate motivator for them is sex with 71 different virginal women. I'm a big fan of doing the sex, and a choice of women would be nice, but is it something I'm prepared to die for? No.

I have to wonder if these people would be so eager to die for the cause if the reward was mainly grapes, and not women.

Time in heaven is infinite, thus you will be allowed ∞/72 times sex, with a virgin... A woman with no experience etc.. Yawn, yawn.

I presume after the glorified deflowering, she is no more, so to speak, available. So that is a sex life of ∞/72 - sounds like hell, or marriage :)
 
Time in heaven is infinite, thus you will be allowed ∞/72 times sex, with a virgin... A woman with no experience etc.. Yawn, yawn.

Yeah, that was another downside I thought of after I posted. Nothing but first-timers...



I presume after the glorified deflowering, she is no more, so to speak, available. So that is a sex life of ∞/72 - sounds like hell, or marriage :)


It's almost like people think deflowering virgins is fun for anyone involved!
 
Both the quran and the bible both suffer from the same inherent problem: religious significance and the faith people put in them. Questions like "Is the quran worse than the bible?" and statements like "The bible is just as bad as the quran" miss the point completely. It's not about what they say, it's how the came to those conclusions and both of them are practically worthless since they basically rely on the same methods.
 
Both the quran and the bible both suffer from the same inherent problem: religious significance and the faith people put in them. Questions like "Is the quran worse than the bible?" and statements like "The bible is just as bad as the quran" miss the point completely. It's not about what they say, it's how the came to those conclusions and both of them are practically worthless since they basically rely on the same methods.


Quite. Essentially, "Which is the best 'Bumper Book of Fairytales'".
 
Is there an OT/NT commandment where YHVH orders the believers to kill the unbelievers as a general rule? IIRC not.


Deuteronomy 20:16-18
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods,and you will sin against the Lord your God.


Deuteronomy 13:
13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God
, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
13:11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.


13:12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.



Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Matthew 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
 
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Quite a bit of misinformation in this thread, but ask me if I'm surprised.

Islam is not Judaism 3.0, since Jesus never called himself a Christian or told people to worship him. Jews just like Muslims, also worship the God of Abraham, Moses, and Noah, therefore Islam is not a new religion.

Old Testament foretells of Muhammad’s coming
God speaks to the Prophet Moses and tells him that he will raise up a new Prophet who has certain clearly identifiable characteristics: “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear my words, which He speaks in my name, I will require it of him. [Deuteronomy 18:18-19] [Further explained]

New Testament foretells of Muhammad’s coming
[John 15:26] "But when "the Comforter" is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will sent him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. ... I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak... and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you." [John 16:7-14]

So just like the arrival of Jesus fulfilled a number of prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament, the same can be said in regards to the arrival of Muhammad (saw).


Islam does not support things such as rape, incest, or pedophilia or the “murdering of infidels” (infidel, a person who does not believe in religion or who adheres to a religion other than one's own). The verses which you referenced (Quran 65:1-4 & 33:49) has to do with the “divorcing of women” and making sure they are not still pregnant with a man's child. The taking of innocent life without just cause is also forbidden in Islam (Quran 5:32, 17:33, 2:256), the previously mentioned verse regarding the killing of "infidels" has to do with times of war and religious oppression.

Regarding the Quran being repetitive, well despite the book's simple message and constant reminding to mankind that we should remember our not too distant meeting with our lord, the masses continue their decent towards decadence, and distance from God. The Quran's somewhat repetitive nature also makes the message easy to find, open any page of the book and you won't be far from it.

Why direct people towards an obviously biased website such as “The Skeptic's Annotated anything” when so many good unbiased resources exist? http://quran.com/
http://www.onereason.org/quran/ (download a Quran in your native language)

Many additional miracles of the Quran are displayed by both reading and listening to the Quran in its original form (Arabic).
Just one example (Linguistic) Link
Just one example (Poetic/beauty – (first reciter) Surah An-Nisa from Ayat 155 to 160) Link

*Scorpion, why you continue to try and make this claim despite the numerous occasions where I have shown you very specifically that the Quran was not copied from the Bible. Muhammad could not read, and the Quran was not written down in his lifetime. Your claim is beyond absurd and absolutely without merit. Yes, the Quran references earlier prophets of God, OK, and why shouldn't it?

Other things which have been shrouded in misinformation
Previous miracles were for people who lived in a specific period of time, such as the birth of Jesus, Moses parting the sea, etc. The Qur’an – a living miracle

Regarding the integrity of the Quran - Link #

Some of the prophecies mentioned in the Quran & Hadith- Link

Who/What is the source of the Quran?

What was the character of Muhammad?

In my opinion many of the people who frequent these forums are like mini Ad-Dajjals (Antichrists/False Messiahs) because just like this figure (to come) who will knowingly cover up truth, they act in a similar manner. Maybe in some cases it is just plain ignorance, but at times it also appears to be intentional.

***May God guide all of those who are sincere.
 
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Quite a bit of misinformation in this thread, but ask me if I'm surprised.

Islam is not Judaism 3.0, since Jesus never called himself a Christian or told people to worship him. Jews just like Muslims, also worship the God of Abraham, Moses, and Noah, therefore Islam is not a new religion.

Old Testament foretells of Muhammad’s coming
God speaks to the Prophet Moses and tells him that he will raise up a new Prophet who has certain clearly identifiable characteristics: “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear my words, which He speaks in my name, I will require it of him. [Deuteronomy 18:18-19] [Further explained]

New Testament foretells of Muhammad’s coming
[John 15:26] "But when "the Comforter" is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will sent him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. ... I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak... and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you." [John 16:7-14]

So just like the arrival of Jesus fulfilled a number of prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament, the same can be said in regards to the arrival of Muhammad (saw).


Islam does not support things such as rape, incest, or pedophilia or the “murdering of infidels” (infidel, a person who does not believe in religion or who adheres to a religion other than one's own). The verses which you referenced (Quran 65:1-4 & 33:49) has to do with the “divorcing of women” and making sure they are not still pregnant with a man's child. The taking of innocent life without just cause is also forbidden in Islam (Quran 5:32, 17:33, 2:256), the previously mentioned verse regarding the killing of "infidels" has to do with times of war and religious oppression.


No, the Quran doesn't mention the killing of infidels in the commonly held sense:

http://www.justaskislam.com/32/does-islam-say-kill-the-infidels/ (ignore the paragraphs of brainwashing to get to the point).

Now all we need is for the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of brainwashed radical idiots to realise that, and we'll be OK.

As for "who copied who", I always thought Islam preceded Christianity. However, given that the question is basically the same as asking "is Father Christmas a rip-off of St Niklaas?", it's pretty pointless anyway.
 
As for "who copied who", I always thought Islam preceded Christianity. However, given that the question is basically the same as asking "is Father Christmas a rip-off of St Niklaas?", it's pretty pointless anyway.

No it's not. Jesus and Paul lived in the 1st Century, while Mohammed lived in the 7th Century. It's pretty easy to figure out which preceded which.

Father Christmas is an English figure, and Sinterklaas a Dutch figure. They are quite distinct. But both preceded and were inspiration for the American Santa Claus.
 
No it's not. Jesus and Paul lived in the 1st Century, while Mohammed lived in the 7th Century. It's pretty easy to figure out which preceded which.

According to each bumper book of fairy tales. I'd be loathe to hold up either as a shining example of historical accuracy.

But which one came first isn't really relevant to my point:


Father Christmas is an English figure, and Sinterklaas a Dutch figure. They are quite distinct. But both preceded and were inspiration for the American Santa Claus.


Which was that they are both made-up tales/figures that have little base in reality, so any comparison is pointless.
 
According to each bumper book of fairy tales. I'd be loathe to hold up either as a shining example of historical accuracy.
You don't have to believe the stories (I don't ) in order to investigate when they originated. And while there's some discussion on the dating of the gospels and Paul's letters, the disagreement is in a couple of decades rather than centuries. AFAIK, there is no controversy at all about the age when Muhamed lived.

Which was that they are both made-up tales/figures that have little base in reality, so any comparison is pointless.
I absolutely disagree. First of all, there's little controversy that an actual Nicholas bishop of Myra actually lived in the 4th Century, and is the basis for the Dutch Sinterklaas figure. Secondly, even if they're made-up figures the question where and when they originate is interesting.
 

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