How does the Qur'an stack up to the Bible?

Here is how the quran stacks up against the bible. It is the bible, or is almost completely stolen from it. The following list is the number of references to bible characters that appear in the quran. They are mostly just mentioned in passing, like name dropping, but where their story's are told they are poorly narrated and short on details.

Aaron, 4:163, 6:84, 7:122, 7:142, 7:150, 7:172, 10:75, 19:53, 20:30, 20:40, 20:90, 20:92, 21:48, 23:45, 25:35, 26:12, 26:48, 28:34, 37:114-120

Abraham, 2:124-129, 2:130-132, 2:135, 2:136, 2:140, 2:258, 2:260, 3:65, 3:67-68, 3:84, 3:95, 3:97, 4:54-55, 4:125, 4:163, 6:74-83, 6:161, 9:70, 9:114, 11:69-76, 12:6, 12:38, 14:35, 15:51-56, 16:120, 16:123, 19:41-49, 19:58, 21:51-73, 22:26, 22:43, 22:78, 26:69, 29:16, 29:25, 29:31, 33:7, 37:83-109, 38:45, 42:13, 43:26, 51:24-34, 53:37, 57:26, 60:4-5, 87:19

Adam, 2:31-32, 3:33, 5:27, 7:19-25, 17:61, 17:70, 18:50, 19:58, 20:115-123, 40:31, 41:13, 41:15

Cain and Abel, 5:27-31

David, 4:163, 5:78, 6:84, 17:55, 21:78, 21:79, 27:15-16, 34:10, 34:13, 38:17, 38:21-26, 38:30

Elijah, 6:85, 37:123-130

Isaac, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:84, 11:71, 12:5, 12:6, 12:38, 14:39, 21:72, 37:112-113, 38:45

Ishmael, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:86, 14:39, 21:85, 37:102-109, 38:48

Jacob (Israel), 3:84, 4:163, 6:84, 6:85, 11:71, 12:38, 12:68, 19:6, 19:49-50, 19:58, 21:72

Jesus, 4:163, 9:30, 9:31, 10:68, 19:30-34, 21:91, 23:50, 33:7, 61:6, 61:14

Job, 4:163, 6:84, 21:83, 38:41-44

John the Baptist, 3:38-40, 6:85, 6:86, 19:7-15, 21:90

Jonah, 4:163, 6:86, 10:98, 21:87, 37:139-148, 68:48

Joseph, 6:84, 12:4-101, 12:102, 40:34

Mary, 3:34-37, 3:42-47, 4:156-157, 4:171, 5:17, 5:46, 5:72, 5:78, 5:110, 5:112, 5:114, 5:116, 9:31, 19:16-39, 21:91, 23:50, 33:7, 43:57, 56:27, 61:6, 61:14, 66:12

Moses, 3:84, 6:84, 6:91, 7:103-162, 10:75-93, 11:96, 11:110, 14:5, 14:6, 14:8, 17:2, 17:101-104, 18:60-82, 19:51-53, 20:9-98, 21:48, 22:44, 23:45-49, 25:35, 26:10-66, 27:7-14, 28:3-43, 28:44, 28:48, 28:76, 29:39, 32:23, 33:7, 33:69, 37:114-120, 40:23-27, 40:53, 41:45, 42:13, 43:46-55, 44:17-36, 46:12, 46:30, 51:38-40, 53:36, 61:5, 79:14-25, 87:19

Noah, 3:33, 6:84, 7:59-64, 7:69, 9:70, 10:71, 11:25-33, 11:36-48, 11:89, 14:9, 17:3, 17:17, 19:58, 21:76, 22:42, 23:23-29, 25:37, 26:105-120, 29:14, 37:75-79, 38:12, 40:5, 40:31, 42:13, 50:12, 51:46, 53:52, 54:9, 57:26, 66:10

Pharaoh, 7:104-137, 8:52, 8:54, 10:75-90, 11:97, 14:6, 20:24, 20:43, 20:56, 20:60, 20:78, 23:46, 26:10-66, 27:12, 28:3-42, 29:39, 38:12, 40:24-46, 43:46-85, 44:17, 44:31, 50:13, 51:38-40, 54:41-42, 66:11, 69:9, 73:15-16, 79:17-25, 85:18

Saul, 2:247, 2:249

Solomon, 2:101, 4:163, 6:84, 21:78, 21:79, 21:81, 27:15-21, 34:12-14

Zachariah, 3:37-41, 6:85, 19:2-12
 
I Am The Scum said:
The quran is plagiarism in the same sense that Star Wars fan fic is plagiarism.
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That's...a pretty apt description, actually. Both have no connection to the authors of the original works but are frank and open about their reliance on those works, both rely on the target audience being familiar enough with the original works that only brief references or recaps are necessary for that target audience, both spin the material from the original works off in a surprising direction that would almost certainly shock the creators of the originals, and both mostly feature a self-insert Mary Sue character.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I'm not bashing it. I'm asking a question. There's no law stating I can't ask questions about a movie, book, song or other work before delving into it myself. In fact, this is common practice. Should I buy this CD? You've watched the new Star Trek film, right, is it any good? Harry Potter seems really childish, but should I give it a chance?


ETA:My opinion/hypothesis, not stated in the OP, is that there will probably be a huge improvement over the OT and maybe even the NT, seeing it took form in a later time, but that there will still be a lot of bad stuff down the road.
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That would be a decent hope, but look at the author and his times.
Still basic Stone Age savagery as promoted by the OT and NT, with the victor being "right", because he is the victor.
And it is still practised as Stone Age savagery there.
 
Muslims are fond of saying that the quran is a miracle, because it was dictated by an illiterate Arab who had no access to the bible. Therefore it must have come from God. The quran itself even says it must be from God, Because it confirms all the previous messages. But how would Muhammad know that if he had never heard the bible.

In fact there is a hadith in which Muhammad sends for the Torah to have it read to him, to decide the fate of a Jew and Jewess for commiting adultery, and because the Torah says the punishment is stoning Muhammad had them stoned. This proves he knew the bible well.

Here are three verses in the quran that mention the psalms of the bible by name.


004.163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

017.055 And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

021.105 Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

I have long had a suspicion that the entire form of the quran may owe something to the psalms. There is also a good chance that Muhammad's style may owe something to the Song of Solomon.

In any case the quran mentions the Torah, or the books of Moses and Abraham at many verses; Here are some references.

sura 3.48 sura 4.54 sura 11.17 sura 11.110 sura 19.41 sura 17.2 sura 17.4 sura 23.49 sura 25.35 sura 40.53 sura 41.45 sura 45.16 sura 46.12 sura 53.36 sura 87.19 sura 28.2 sura 32.2 sura

The Greek bible was readily avaliable long before Muhammads time, and it is well know that Muslim raiders took many manuscripts along with other plunder.
What is even more obvious is that the greater part of the quran quotes bible story after bible story, and many of these quotes are about Jewish old Testament myths that are obviously no part of real history, and their source can only be Jewish scribes that invented them to promote their own agenda.
There has been much work done on bible criticism, and some of it to show that the story of Noah's ark, and Jonah and the whale, and Adam and Eve, and the drowning of Pharaohs army, and such stories, have no foundation in reality. But the quran claims them all as a previous message from God.
 
Scorpion said:
Muslims are fond of saying that the quran is a miracle, because it was dictated by an illiterate Arab who had no access to the bible. Therefore it must have come from God. The quran itself even says it must be from God, Because it confirms all the previous messages. But how would Muhammad know that if he had never heard the bible.
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The supposed "miraculousness" of the Qur'an is because of more than just that. And the Bible was certainly around in Mecca for Muhammad to have heard - according to the sira, his first wife's cousin Waraqa bin Naufal was not just a Christian, but a scholar of the Old and New Testaments.

I have long had a suspicion that the entire form of the quran may owe something to the psalms. There is also a good chance that Muhammad's style may owe something to the Song of Solomon.
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The Qur'an's "style" is that of the unmetered (but rhythmical) rhymed prose known as saj', commonly used in pre-Islamic religious and soothsaying compositions in Arabia. The Psalms contain nether meter nor rhyme.

The Greek bible was readily avaliable long before Muhammads time, and it is well know that Muslim raiders took many manuscripts along with other plunder.
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Any pre-Islamic raiders had no need to steal manuscripts in order to be exposed to the Bible, since Christian and Jewish works were already widespread among those religious communities within Arabia, and in a variety of languages besides Greek.

What is even more obvious is that the greater part of the quran quotes bible story after bible story, and many of these quotes are about Jewish old Testament myths that are obviously no part of real history, and their source can only be Jewish scribes that invented them to promote their own agenda.
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Which was common in the Christianity and Judaism of Late Antiquity. Particularly Christianity, since the canonization of the corpus was not so much a process of weeding out the "true" scriptures from the later forgeries, but whittling down the various later forgeries into an accepted canon. That's why even the four Synoptic Gospels all contain such dramatic differences from each other.

There has been much work done on bible criticism, and some of it to show that the story of Noah's ark, and Jonah and the whale, and Adam and Eve, and the drowning of Pharaohs army, and such stories, have no foundation in reality. But the quran claims them all as a previous message from God.
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Which is not a difference between the Bible and the Qur'an, but a similarity.
 
Hokulele said:
What do you mean by "better"? I found it to be an interesting complement to the OT, but other than that the language is a little more poetic than the NT, but the message is basically the same. "We're right, they're wrong."

One thing to watch out for is the translation (are you reading it in English or Norwegian?). There are as many different translations of the Qur'an as there are of the bible, and some of them seem to be specifically written so as to minimize the shock of some of the nastier passages (such as the bit about beating one's wife).
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That's my take as well.

I have a beautiful quran that was given to me when I worked in Saudi, and in reading it I didn't find it much nuttier than than the bible.
 
BStrong said:
That's my take as well.

I have a beautiful quran that was given to me when I worked in Saudi, and in reading it I didn't find it much nuttier than than the bible.
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And to all the above posts, I should add some do make some interesting reading - is there at risk of this becoming another polishing turds thread?
 
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Belgian thought said:
And to all the above posts, I should add some do make some interesting reading - is there at risk of this becoming another polishing turds thread?
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Yep, "you're spreading crap, I'm polishing an ass gem".
 
ixolite said:
No. Imo it's even worse. In the Koran you have not only the (explicit) permission of pedophilia (Q 65:4 + 33:49), but also the (general) order to murder infidels (Q 9:5), as well as the permission of violence against women (Q 4:34).
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For pedophilia I draw a blank but for the rest ? Pretty much on par with OT and part of NT.

Also add incest. And mass murder , as in : complete and utter genocide.
 
In the Paradise descriptions Muslims come out on top. They get a garden of sex and water features and Christians get a room in a mansion. Of course after the sex part, it's just 71 women who want to talk about my feelings and go candle shopping.
 
Craig4 said:
In the Paradise descriptions Muslims come out on top. They get a garden of sex and water features and Christians get a room in a mansion. Of course after the sex part, it's just 71 women who want to talk about my feelings and go candle shopping.
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Now, I remember reading somewhere (can't remember - no point asking!), that the '71 Virgins' promise was actually a mistranslation (not in the usual revisionist sense where religious types are trying to handwave away the word of their chosen god that doesn't sit right with modern society). Apparently, there are no virgins to be had.

So, it might be cold comfort, but I'm sure there's a tiny amount of satisfaction to be gained by knowing that if there WERE an afterlife, those brain-washed morons with their Stone Age sensibilities, who killed innocent people (while taking their own lives) in the name of jihad, will not be getting the good stuff.
 
epepke said:
Ink for prison tattoos?



Bibles are great, because the paper is thin and burns easily, but the Quran is a lot shorter.
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The standard issue (back in the day) bible for British soldiers had very thin paper - thinner than the actual toilet paper that came with our ration packs. VERY useful in the field. I never did get to trial run the Quran, but I'm sure it would have been a pleasure!
 
SatansMaleVoiceChoir said:
Now, I remember reading somewhere (can't remember - no point asking!), that the '71 Virgins' promise was actually a mistranslation (not in the usual revisionist sense where religious types are trying to handwave away the word of their chosen god that doesn't sit right with modern society). Apparently, there are no virgins to be had.

So, it might be cold comfort, but I'm sure there's a tiny amount of satisfaction to be gained by knowing that if there WERE an afterlife, those brain-washed morons with their Stone Age sensibilities, who killed innocent people (while taking their own lives) in the name of jihad, will not be getting the good stuff.
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Actually I'm kind of amused at the idea of a Jihadi spending eternity trying to watch the match only to be drug to Bed, Bath and Beyond by 71 virgins because Yankee Candle Company is having a sale.
 
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