How does prophet yahweh do his trick?

[fuelair]

Check some videos.

I am not talking about shaking of camera. The news crew saw the object staying in one place. Then it moved towards an Air Force base. THen it came back. Then if vanished.

Never did it go up. Never did it go down.

Bill, part of the reason you won't get all the information you want (hope not to find?) is this is a very minor but cute magic trick - and tricks are not given away here. However, your statement of never goes up or down provided all the info I needed to tell you that part - because a company openly used it some 25 years ago for party balloons: the company sold mylar ballons, filled with helium and included aluminized sticky card board squares with it - to make the density of the balloon match the density of air at a given height you simply added or removed squares. Due to buoyancy (which applies in all fluids IIRC), an object will stay at the level where upward force (buoyancy) and downward force (gravity) are equal. That is, the balloon will hang in the air at a fairly specific height and move, staying at that height, with prevailing air currents. I do this to entertain kids at parties (not as a business) with all kinds of helium balloons and weights. I'll leave it to you to figure out other simple flight control methods - limited as they will be by the item being moved.


Oh, the security people would not be allowed in because they are likely the ones handling launch and movement. If he was real, they would not be needed.

 

[Bill Thompson]

good response.
thanks.

 

[fuelair]

Having actually watched the video, there is no trick to explain - the balloon did simply move with air currents - it is also evident that it was being affected by rising or falling air (density changes)(just in case: warm air rises as it is less dense, cool air falls as it is more dense) as reflectivity kept changing. There was no independant control of the flight - though such is possible if the "UFO" cannot be examined.

Low level fraud at best.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

You are saying that he or an assist is hauling around a helium gas tank?

....

Ummm... YES, actually!

A 14 cubic foot tank is 5 inches in diameter, 18 inches long, and weighs 8 pounds. That seems pretty portable to me.

 

[rjh01]

good response.
thanks.

I think this is a great post. Not often do members get thanked in threads like this one by the OP.

 

[Drudgewire]

For the record, here's the application challenge thread. "He was about to collect the million" and "UFO guy:1 JREF:0" claims are... ummm...

Well, if I can't say something nice it's probably better not to say anything at all.

 

[ugot2bekidding]

If it was like that, the news crew set out to make fun of him would have noticed that they looked and moved like a balloon. To them it did not look like a balloon. To them it did not move like a balloon.

.

To the news crew, loony UFO summoning = ratings
...balloon = no ratings.

 

[TraneWreck]

For the record, here's the application challenge thread. "He was about to collect the million" and "UFO guy:1 JREF:0" claims are... ummm...

Well, if I can't say something nice it's probably better not to say anything at all.

The funny thing about that is even if this nutjob could actually summon UFOs, that in no way indicates paranormal powers. It just means he can contact intergalactic space travelers, there's no way for him to prove some unknown technology isn't being used.

But that's beside the point. How do we take someone seriously who says this:

I once tried to summon for money before Michael Jackson's farther and casino executives of Las Vegas. But, a sighting did not show.

By the way, the funny part isn't the spelling error...

Edit: I was reading more of the challenge application. This seems a little, er, damning for our noble summoner:

As long as the skies are clear and the winds calm.

Hmm...why would a UFO be afraid of a little wind...

More funny:

Two space craft are going to show up on my signal, and I will use the money to feed, house, and cloth people in ways that has never been done before.

That seems to be the real paranormal claim. I bet the clothes are made out of mylar.

 

[fuelair]

The funny thing about that is even if this nutjob could actually summon UFOs, that in no way indicates paranormal powers. It just means he can contact intergalactic space travelers, there's no way for him to prove some unknown technology isn't being used.

But that's beside the point. How do we take someone seriously who says this:



By the way, the funny part isn't the spelling error...

Edit: I was reading more of the challenge application. This seems a little, er, damning for our noble summoner:



Hmm...why would a UFO be afraid of a little wind...

More funny:



That seems to be the real paranormal claim. I bet the clothes are made out of mylar.

If you did not look at the video, you might want to. Even with the camera shake (and I have no idea how a pro-camera operator could get that much shaking in unless on purpose) you can tell that the "craft" (balloon) was rocking back and forth irregularly as it moved (watch the reflection off it as the top or bottom alligns with the camers). That motion in moving air is why that test condition.

 

[TraneWreck]

If you did not look at the video, you might want to. Even with the camera shake (and I have no idea how a pro-camera operator could get that much shaking in unless on purpose) you can tell that the "craft" (balloon) was rocking back and forth irregularly as it moved (watch the reflection off it as the top or bottom alligns with the camers). That motion in moving air is why that test condition.

I don't understand your post. Of course I watched the video. That's why it's funny.

 

[Moochie]

One video?

That does not sound like a very through investigation.

We can say it is obviously fake just because we think it must be. But where is he debunked?

I was reading the history of his application for the million dollar prise, the Randi guy suddenly says, "oh, you cannot have any personal security there". Well, if he WAS the real deal, he WOULD have personal security preventing REAL wackos from attacking him. It is a catch 22. He shows up alone and is mobbed and we say "well, if he was for real, wouldn't he had some personal security" On the other hand, if the JREF finds that he has personal security his application is turned down. So the guy says, ok, thanks but no thanks. I say the score is this:

Wacky UFO Guy: 1
JREF: 0

Bill, PY's "trick" was so patently obvious that it needed no formal debunking. He has many videos on YouTube all showing the same thing -- balloons --or variations thereof. For instance, there are different sized balloons, different colored balloons, and in one video that I saw, he had tied several balloons together into a cluster. The camera actually zoomed onto the "object" and it was clearly a bunch of balloons tied together. You may choose to believe otherwise, but I doubt you'll get much support anywhere except on sites which indulge such fantasies.

Oh, and your position on the MDC has been thoroughly debunked in numerous threads in this forum as well, so good luck with that one.

Bill: 0
Skeptics: millions


M.

 

[blutoski]

I think this is a great post. Not often do members get thanked in threads like this one by the OP.

Yes, I'm impressed.

Another thing to consider is that the quantity of helium - or even hydrogen - required to fill one mylar balloon can be compressed and stored in one of those cartidges used for hand-held paintball guns.

The smallest model I've seen is easily hidden in one hand, suitable for such a trick.

 

[blutoski]

Yes, I'm impressed.

Another thing to consider is that the quantity of helium - or even hydrogen - required to fill one mylar balloon can be compressed and stored in one of those cartidges used for hand-held paintball guns.

The smallest model I've seen is easily hidden in one hand, suitable for such a trick.

Just to follow-up... I located some helium cartridges in very small sizes, ostensibly used for medical purposes. It wouldn't be difficult to conceal these in the hand.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Still waiting for the debunked info. Is it hidded somewhere like the secrets of Penn and Teller?

I understand that you're asking for a debunking and no one has provided it. However, it is not necessary to debunk a claim in order to reject it. The skeptical approach is to follow the evidence. The burden of proof is on the claimant. In this case, we have an over-the-top extraordinary claim. All we have as "evidence" is a YouTube video that could be faked in any number of ways.

This came up in another thread. We don't have to expose this "trick" to reject it as false. The evidence isn't anywhere close to compelling us to accept the claim that he summoned through Yahweh a UFO to appear in the sky.

Not even close.

 

[Moochie]

<snipped for Bill>

It is also interesting that JREF backed out because of "lack of evidence". I might add that Prophet Yahweh has two talents. One talent is that he can make these balls appear in the sky. Another talent is that he can turn skeptics into chickens.

If you read the entire sad and sorry saga, you will be aware that negotiations went on for about a year, and everything was set and ready to go when virtually at the last minute PY casually introduces this requirement for armed guards to be there -- armed guards for which there was absolutely no need, and which the local police would probably not have allowed anyway.

The reasons PY gave for wanting armed personnel were totally spurious. In the entire history of the MDC there is not one instance of anyone ever stipulating that armed guards be present at a test.

For the test to go ahead, all PY had to do was drop that stipulation. For reasons never adequately explained to anyone's satisfaction, PY wouldn't do that.

To almost everyone, with the exception of maybe yourself, it looks like PY never had any intention of allowing himself to be tested

Also, it has never been established that PY ever had any armed guards to deploy, or even if he actually applied for any permits or attempted to comply with any other legal requirements that may have existed.

For reasons known only to PY himself, he chose to back out of the preliminary test by introducing this stipulation at virtually the last minute. After all, he could have mentioned it many months before the test, but he did not.

My personal take on his egregious behavior is that he sought to generate publicity for himself by going through the charade of applying for the MDC.

He certainly succeeded there.



M.

 

[Ferguson]

So, Bill Thompson, you think it's a good idea for claimants seeking the million dollars to show up with a bunch of cronies armed with guns?

 

[Lonewulf]

Bill Thompson supports police brutality and using nuclear weapons to blow up your own country. I highly doubt that showing up with cronies to affect a scientific test would be out of his bounds.

 

[TraneWreck]

And the other bizarre thing about all of that is that if the Prophet just showed up with one or two armed body guards, and they just did their job without making a stink, I'm not sure anyone every would have known they were armed much less cared.

If you read the bizarre letters, it's clear that old Yaweh was just getting ready to toss out a bunch of odd, impossible to satisfy requirements so he could claim JREF backed off, rather than having the venerable Mr. Randi look up and see a couple of balloons.

 

[tsig]

This trick?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXuEwOckwsA
.
Go to the supermarket and get a mylar party balloon.

And some fishing line.

 

[Typicallucas]

It is totally common and sometimes compulsory to have on-duty police officers present at commercial filming sites.

I think it could have been arranged in a single phone call to have one or two Las Vegas police officers at the test.

ETA: Actually I would have wanted to hide behind a cop when near a person who says "the Messiah is going to destroy all religions other than the worship of YAHWEH because of the soul murder they have committed against humanity for far too long"

E again TA: He goes on to claim in a document titled "In the name of the most holy and wonderful Yahweh"
* First God searched him out but he actually asked God for the job of top prophet, and was approved.
* He has been commanded to go to war.
* He is preparing to receive a massive fortune for Israel's sake.
* He must build two great temples for God; one in the Nevada desert, one in the "Amazon wilderness of Brazil" with highways and huge storage facilities.
* He "must build survival retreats for Israel", in which his acolytes, called "students", will be pampered while the world suffers.
* The "two witnesses" he identifies as Enoch and Elijah, will be flown to him by spaceships at his desert compound.
* He "must plan for our national deliverance", which is defined, in a rambling description, as kicking the Israelis out of Israel to accommodate his followers
* He defines the border of his kingdom, called New Israel, as half of Egypt, half of Sudan, part of Uganda, all of Eritrea, all of Israel, all of Jordan, all of Lebanon, part of Saudi Arabia most of Syria, almost half of Iraq, part of Kuwait, which will require the forced removal of all peoples from those lands.
* He and his "students" will rule the world.
* There can be no doubt, (and he makes sure we know it), that he is "YAHWEH's Chosen One".
* God has told him to become a media mogul by selling his "Pay-Per-View Summonings" worldwide.
* He claims that he is actually "The Voice Of Him Who Cries In The Wilderness" and not John the Baptist.
* And, as amazing as it seems, in, what he says are God's own words, he actually proves conclusively he is a false Prophet and was commanded to stop his ministry by God in 2004.





yikes