How does one market skepticism?

[jj]

I can also tell you alot of these people will probably ask, "What's in it for me?". Why should I invest any further of what little time I have into something like skeptecism? Alot of the people that I know would definitely ask this.

Chip (should I call you "chip"), you just put your thumb dead on one of the problems, as I see it.

SOME of our competition as I see it on an everyday basis:

Movies, most movies are fantasy based, if not outright woo.
example: EVP, The Exorcist, The Grudge, 6th Sense, and so on.

Agreed. I have nothing against a good fantasy (look at my rows of bookshelves, you can tell but yes, it is good that people realize that the movies ARE fantasy.

Newspapers. I have yet to read a newspaper that does NOT have a horoscope in it, or some story about the paranormal.

And you just clocked one of my big pet peeves, too.

I think anyone who argues about "gravitational influences" ought to have to consider the gravitational influence of Neptune vs. their honey at 1" away.

Personally, I can't fund a skeptics group, but I try to make a contribution when I can. Mostly by word of mouth. For example, I have an aunt who believed the Exorcist was based on a true story.

A, perhaps the way we can win the war against BS, I think, is to get more people, many more people, to do exactly what you're doing.

(do I need to say that I'm all with you in your efforts???)

Do you have any idea how to get more people to do as you do?

Perhaps I should say this specifically, I regard day to day behavior as much more a measure than "giving money to skeptical groups". Many, perhaps most people, haven't the money, but do have the brains and understanding.

 

[Chocolate Chip]

jj wrote:

Chip (should I call you "chip")

Certainly, Chip is fine.

Agreed. I have nothing against a good fantasy (look at my rows of bookshelves, you can tell but yes, it is good that people realize that the movies ARE fantasy.

This one is a bit tricky though. Some movies claim to be based on true events. For example, did William Wallace really have sex with the Princess of Wales? (Braveheart). Is the house in Amityville really haunted? (Amityville Horror). Some of us understand that movies take "artistic license" with fact based events. But I find that they blur what is real and what is added, and I find alot of people have a hard time telling the difference. Not that I'm saying they're stupid, no. But when truth and fantasy are mixed up and then presented as based on "true events", some people take all of it as based on true events.

I think anyone who argues about "gravitational influences" ought to have to consider the gravitational influence of Neptune vs. their honey at 1" away.

No-brainer there, Honey should always win out.

Do you have any idea how to get
more people to do as you do?

I find it easier to talk to the people closest to you, or the people you are the most comfortable being with. If their viewpoint is different than yours express yours, back it up with evidence when you can, and try to be as good natured about it as possible. Don't be afraid to speak your mind, but in a positive way. I read a few posts in another topic, (I'll check for the link later as I'm a bit pressed for time right now) where some posters say they keep their views to themselves. I suppose that in some situations, this might be prudent, but perhaps those who can, should speak out a bit more and offer an opposing view to the woo view. I like to encourage the people I know to think for themselves as well, not just in the case of skeptics verses woo's, but in ALL aspects of daily life. If they start to think for themselves more, they may question some of these things that they believe.

jmercer wrote:

But you really can't challenge her on the statement the movie is based on a 'true story'. It's indeed a 'true story' in the sense that something apparently happened, and the movie was created based on that incident.

True enough, my use of the word "hoax" in my previous post was incorrect. I suppose it's a case of "you should have been there at the time" of the discussion with my aunt. In any case, one of my aims was to get her to question some of the beliefs she expressed about the movie, and NOT just take the movie at it's word, or as it was portrayed.

By the way jmercer, on a sidenote, I don't know if you're aware or not, but there are glaring differences in the Exorcist stories presented in your link:

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0137.html

and the one I've read:

http://www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html

 

[hammegk]

In the midst of a horrid argument down in the alternate flame-wars forum (***community***) ...

For anyone who might actually care, to clarify, jj is 'arguing' on that website; most are laughing at him.

 

[H3LL]

I feel a little as though I've crashed with the Golgafrinchams into this thread.

"Which is of course the sort of thing we need to know," insisted the girl. "Do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"

That aside. It is going to very difficult to market to anyone in a foreign language.

Critical thinking is both an alien concept and incomprehensible to many and may just as well be in Pictish.

I agree with Sagan that the tools need to be put in place and put in place early. Until that happens it will continue to be an uphill struggle.

Marketing to a group that do not understand your language is a waste of time.

 

[jj]

I feel a little as though I've crashed with the Golgafrinchams into this thread.



That aside. It is going to very difficult to market to anyone in a foreign language.

Difficult, but have you ever seen american ad's in Japan?

Critical thinking is both an alien concept and incomprehensible to many and may just as well be in Pictish.

The full blown thing, indeed, but please don't dismiss teaching the idea one bit at a time. I'm fairly sure it can be done, but you have to find a way to hold the person's interest. THAT is the marketing part.

I agree with Sagan that the tools need to be put in place and put in place early. Until that happens it will continue to be an uphill struggle.

No argument there.

Marketing to a group that do not understand your language is a waste of time.

Now that is simply not true, in my experience. I've seen quite a few "american" advertisements in places where most people don't speak english, and oddly enough, I see the products selling, too. So, at least in terms of "real" language, your argument is wrong.

I think you're simply thinking of bad marketing. The question is how one gets people interested. One thing at a time, one idea at a time, "does magic work", etc.

No, you won't ever reach the hard-core believers, I'd never bother to suggest that.

Niow, in order to do that, you do have to get along with people, instead of offend them and put them on the defensive.

I think there's a very serious point in that message, as well. (Note: I'm not dismissing ridicule, but don't ridicule the victim, please, it puts the whole group on defense.)

 

[jj]

I find it easier to talk to the people closest to you, or the people you are the most comfortable being with. If their viewpoint is different than yours express yours, back it up with evidence when you can, and try to be as good natured about it as possible. Don't be afraid to speak your mind, but in a positive way. I read a few posts in another topic, (I'll check for the link later as I'm a bit pressed for time right now) where some posters say they keep their views to themselves. I suppose that in some situations, this might be prudent, but perhaps those who can, should speak out a bit more and offer an opposing view to the woo view. I like to encourage the people I know to think for themselves as well, not just in the case of skeptics verses woo's, but in ALL aspects of daily life. If they start to think for themselves more, they may question some of these things that they believe.

We're quite in agreement here. In my family, I'd be preaching to the choir. I do try to teach some analytic bent to people just as a matter of course, what they can figure out I don't have help them with, after all. (I do a lot of training in my field, for instance, but I don't think I'm qualified to teach critical thinking, rather I can supply a good understanding of some of the basic issues to someone better at teaching to beginners. I s**k at teaching beginners.)

 

[Cleopatra]

Pragmatist let's switch tables for a moment of course I agree 1000% with you but allow me to defend a position that some people are doing such a poor job in doing so.
( I have observed that you make people nervous when you reply to their posts. They either disappear or I can picture them sweating over their chair trying to find a way to get away by being aggressive-- so let the King to do the job).

Maybe the phrase "marketing skeptictism" wasn't the best way to describe what we perceive as a problem but we all understood what the author of the threads wants to say. I have to warn you that I have no data ( hard or... light) in my hands to support my view but I can't ignore the fact that I have noticed in my environment in Athens-Greece that very few immigrants and women apply criticial thinking in their every day life. After all why data is of such a use, are you questioning my observations???

A month ago Uri Geller came to Greece and a couple of " popular channels" broadcatsed a brief demonstration of his tricks and people got thrilled with him.

I have heard comments in the train, in the supermarket, even in court! People are trying to find ways to bend spoons, it's a new trend down here.

On the other hand this year to my dismay astrological forecasts were introduced for the first time in morning shows of the public TV!!! When some organizations complained the people of the public TV replied that " This is what the market wants" The morning shows are viewd by women who stay at home.

Now although all the above observations don't constitute any data I believe that it's wrong to ignore them because If you do and you will insist for evidence I will start suspecting that you question my honesty and you just wish to bully me

There is a question that pops-up and needs to be answered: Why woo-wooism is spreading in a population, what's wrong?

I believe Pragmatist that this happens due to many factors but one of the most important ones is that in order to promote to promote skepticism we have arrogant skeptics like you and Claus for example ( don't take it personally please although I refer personally to you and Claus...) who don't seem to care much about the problems of the simple people . Look at you! If somebody wants to read your illuminating posts he needs two dictionnaries and an access to a good search engine!!

As you remember some months ago I went to a pc shop and I found this protective crystal by Coghill Labs and I came here to discuss only to take 1000 pages of discussions about complicated scientific matters on this issue.

Face it my dear you don't sell.

I believe that if we introduced new ways to approach women and minorities that don't seem to know as much as we do because I --for example--might belong to the female gender and to a minority( jewish) but I am not anything like the vulgar woo-woo peasants. I am very smart, independant, sexy and I am in the position to observe unlike the rest that are jerks and deluded and they expect me to be saved.

So for example, what if instead of having guys like you that post endless pages of facts, why don't we have girls in pink bikinis to protest outside stores that sell woo-woo objects? Girls in bikinis is what the market wants.

How will we approach the average woman? By suggesting that she needs to be educated? By fighting against the female illiteracy worldwide? By joining en messe the human rights organizations that fight for the right of women to graduate school in the countries of the third world? Do you happen to believe that a way to approach women is by asking them to start perceiving themselves as citizens and not as women?

I suspect that you embrace retarded ideas like that that's why " the movement" doesn't move at all....

Who needs ( or can stand)as raw models educated women who ruin their butts on chairs of libraries? We have to sound pleasant to their ears and look attractive in their eyes. We have to make it sound like it's very easy to overcome ignorance. We have to make it appear like a devine epiphany. Oh sorry I forgot that we are atheists ... ok.. let's skip the divine and let's keep the epiphany part. Let's show it as if it's like walking in the street with your fellow skepchick and suddenly you see the mini skirt you have been searching for the whole of yourlife...

Face it Pragmatist you don't sell and it's not only that you don't sell it's that you wish to become an obstacle to our cool, cheeky movement.Please don't take it personally although I refer personally to you. Sheeesh Claus!!Oh sorry !!! I meant Pragmatist! You need to relax a bit, you know that?

 

[H3LL]

Now that is simply not true, in my experience. I've seen quite a few "american" advertisements in places where most people don't speak english, and oddly enough, I see the products selling, too. So, at least in terms of "real" language, your argument is wrong.

I didn't mean "real" language such as Japanese and English, but the language of critical thinking and the scientific method.

For example: While people think theory means guess in science; while people consider all things are possible; while people think critical thinking is a closed mind process; while people are programmed to have faith and not look at evidence; while people cannot understand the importance of falsifiability etc..

Education is the battleground, not marketing, although it has a place.

On the marketing side:

You are critical of ridiculing others. Ridicule is the core of marketing, although marketed under a different name.

"You stink....Buy this deodorant."
"Your hair is the wrong colour...Buy this anti-grey cream"
"You're not mixing with the right people because you don't drink this cola"
"Call those shoes...Pah!...Only an idiot doesn't wear crikey."
"Your car is crappy and out-of-date. Buy a new one. Loser."

Marketing is a constant barrage of ridicule. You're fat. You're weak. You're ugly. You're fearful. You're old. You're dumb. You're unfashionable. You're unwell. You're worse in every way than all around you.

Your approach should be more on how most to ridicule, demean, embarrass and threaten the consumer and then dress it up in fine words.

 

[Mercutio]

[snip]
Face it my dear you don't sell.
[snip]

Thank you for a hilarious post. While I would never say no to skepticism being sold by you in your bikini...

...what was my point?

Oh, yes.

While at TAM3, I noticed, and noted more than once on those Stardust Casino notepads, that everyone there was tearing something down. Every message was negative (which was your point about Prag and Claus, but you phrased it much better); no wonder skeptics are seen as grumpy old men.

Within operant conditioning (you knew I would turn to behaviorism, so I will not dissappoint you), the matching law gives us tremendous flexibility in manipulating behavior indirectly, by manipulating competing behaviors. In other words (a simple concept, but much more than common sense, this one is backed by reams of research), if we wish to reduce one behavior, one way to do it is to increase the rate of a competing behavior. There is, after all, only so much time in a day, and the more time you spend at A, the less time you have for B.

As many here have said, the task is not so much to fight superstition, but to promote skepticism. It seems simple enough. But what is it that is attractive about the things we fight against? We cannot fight merely by pulling that down...we must replace that lost beauty, mystery, and awe, with real beauty, mystery, and awe. We must celebrate, as Gould's column put it, "this view of life."

I talk to my students in my "belief in paranormal" class about the beauty of myth. In a class of 20 or so, there are always a few who really love the idea of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and who really resent Newton for his treatise on Opticks (or however he spelled it), in which he shows how droplets of water refract sunlight into its component wavelengths. They claim they would rather be ignorant of the reality of a rainbow, the better to enjoy the myths. ....so.... I point out that Newton's discovery led to the development of lenses, and to telescopes and microscopes, and point them to the Hubble deep-field pictures, where a patch of night sky with no visible (to the naked eye) stars is revealed to contain dozens of galaxies, each with more stars than we can see at night, looking like diamonds strewn on black velvet.

We need to focus not on debunking the fictional pot of gold; we need to promote the very real diamonds. The stereotype of science and scientists is BORING!!!; the reality is (based solely on personal experience--no real data here) that scientists are excited about their work, and are finding out some very very cool stuff.

I have been approached by a publisher to write a supplemental text for introductory psych, and am beginning to sketch out an outline for a series of explorations which do not simply debunk a claim, but show what is really going on in such a manner that the reader does not feel slighted by the loss of a cherished belief, but rather happy to have been presented with a new perspective with even more beauty. I hope I am up to the task (anyone with ideas, I am more than eager to hear them!)

...but...on second thought...I'd still like to see the bikini pic, Cleo, if only for cover art.

 

[Chocolate Chip]

What benefit do they derive from their current status? It is important to ask questions like these, because we are not marketing our "product" in a vacuum - we have competition. Until we know what the competition is, and what is attractive about the competing product our marketing campaign is just so much hot air.

My perspective on some of these things:

Well, there's life after death. One of people's biggest fears is the fear of death. Isn't it very comforting to believe that if you follow a certain set of rules, do what you're told, death is not the end? You can in effect conquer death. You're not really dead after all, because you "live on" just in some other place or form.

If I screw up and do bad things, I can be forgiven by god. I can keep screwing up because I will always be forgiven. I don't really have to start taking RESPONSIBILITY for my own actions because I will be forgiven. Plus I can blame satan for those bad things I do, it's wasn't really MY fault you see, I'm just a CHILD of god (not my attitude).

Natural is good for us. All those chemicals they use in medecine nowadays, those aren't healthy because they aren't natural (not my attitude). That's why I think homeopathy is considered a viable alternative, it's presented as having the same benefits as conventional medecine, but it's also "natural".

Charisma. I have to admit, John Edward is charismatic. Sylvia Browne knows her target audience. They come across to their followers/audience as very caring individuals. Some people like to have that feeling that there is someone out there that cares for them, even if it's at $700.00 a pop.

What can we offer?

Think for yourself, take responsibility for yourself. Be master of your own destiny (trying not to sound too corny here ).

There are things and people in this world that are just as amazing, even more so than the woo that is spread around. Get off the psychic hot-line and get out into the world abit, don't be afraid to explore.

Educate yourself in any way you can, knowledge IS power.

You can live on after death, but not by becoming a ghost, by leaving your mark on the world, and how your loved ones and people remember you through memories.

Critical thinking is both an alien concept and incomprehensible to many and may just as well be in Pictish

Some may not understand the exact meaning and definitions of critcal thinking, but it does not mean they are incapable of it. I stated earlier that I know of people who demonstrate very good critical thinking skills. It's just not applied to what skeptics think is important. These people apply it to what THEY think is important, to their lives.

Education is the battleground, not marketing, although it has a place.

I agree that education is extremely important. Problem as I see it is that this is another battle that skeptics are losing ground to the woos. Universities are starting to allow different psuedosciences into their domain. Arizona State and Gary Schwartz for example. Intelligent Design trying to break into school curriculum. As far as I'm concerned, science is not... how about PROMOTED instead of MARKETED, enough?
Just like skepticism is not promoted enough?

So for example, what if instead of having guys like you that post endless pages of facts, why don't we have girls in pink bikinis to protest outside stores that sell woo-woo objects? Girls in bikinis is what the market wants.

Seriously, a very good idea, this would get my attention. To be fair, get skepdudes with great physiques in there too for the females.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Well, I think we need a range of plastic action figures.

The CFLarsen Doll! Says "There's no such thing as psi" if you push his button!

The Rolfe Walking Talking Action Figure! Says "Homeopathy doesn't work" if you yank his chain.

The Clockwork Dr Adequate. Wind him up... by mentioning Young Earth Creationism... and watch him go!

And then we need some woowoos for them to fight. I mean, what's the point of having Luke Skywalker if you don't have Darth Vader?

The Uri Geller Puppet (can't bend spoons, guaranteed --- totally realistic!)

The Inflatable Sylvia Browne (ability to communicate with the dead not included).

The Victor Zammit Epoxy Replica (slightly more intelligent than the real thing!)

Order now while stocks last.

 

[Chocolate Chip]

Well, I think we need a range of plastic action figures.

The CFLarsen Doll! Says "There's no such thing as psi" if you push his button!

The Rolfe Walking Talking Action Figure! Says "Homeopathy doesn't work" if you yank his chain.

The Clockwork Dr Adequate. Wind him up... by mentioning Young Earth Creationism... and watch him go!

And then we need some woowoos for them to fight. I mean, what's the point of having Luke Skywalker if you don't have Darth Vader?

The Uri Geller Puppet (can't bend spoons, guaranteed --- totally realistic!)

The Inflatable Sylvia Browne (ability to communicate with the dead not included).

The Victor Zammit Epoxy Replica (slightly more intelligent than the real thing!)

Order now while stocks last.

ROFLMAO

 

[jmercer]

I feel a little as though I've crashed with the Golgafrinchams into this thread.

That aside. It is going to very difficult to market to anyone in a foreign language.

Critical thinking is both an alien concept and incomprehensible to many and may just as well be in Pictish.

I agree with Sagan that the tools need to be put in place and put in place early. Until that happens it will continue to be an uphill struggle.

Marketing to a group that do not understand your language is a waste of time.

You don't try to teach critical thinking through marketing. You don't try to teach ANYTHING through marketing.

You create doubts about existing assumptions and beliefs in their minds, then you give them an alternative place to go to get relief from their newly-hatched doubts.

The organization targeted as the alternative place to go should be tasked with the actual effort of hooking them the rest of the way (or as many as possible) and then teaching critical thinking. Some will learn it, other's won't. Those that do will increase the number of critical thinkers, join the movement, and add to the momentum.

You're looking for a one shot instant remedy cure-all to fix a problem that's been with mankind since recorded history - and probably before that, too. No such thing exists. Marketing is a tool to get people's attention and shake them up a bit. The cure is the after-market effort from the organization that marketing pushes the target toward.

Foreign language isn't a barrier - you find a local advertising company (they pretty much exist everywhere), make sure they understand the goal, and then turn them loose. (Keeping a watchful eye on them, of course.)

Some cultures are going to be harder than others to address. Go for the low-hanging fruit at first, then work your way up the tree.

This isn't rocket science - it's a well-known and frequently practiced methodology that's enormously successful for many, many governments and companies around the globe.

(edited to correct spelling and add an afterthought.)

 

[H3LL]

Foreign language isn't a barrier - you find a local advertising company (they pretty much exist everywhere), make sure they understand the goal, and then turn them loose. (Keeping a watchful eye on them, of course.)

As stated in a previous post, it is not the language such as Japanese or English but the language of critical thinking and the scientific method.

The basic tools of critical thinking and the critical thinking language are simply not there. IMHO Least of all in an ad' agency.

When words such as theory, falsifiability, double-blind, repeatable and evidence are not understood in a scientific context, it's a difficult job.

In conversations those words are often interpreted as: Guess. False. Blindfolded. Happens often. What-someone-said.

This isn't rocket science - it's a well-known and frequently practiced methodology that's enormously successful for many, many governments and companies around the globe.

I would like to see some evidence of any organisation successfully marketing anything where the message is incomprehensible to the target audience.

The cartoon of a guy disciplining a dog springs to mind:

"Blah...blah...blah...SPOT...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...SPOT....blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah....SPOT."

Too many errors today are from the assumption of equal or similar knowledge between the two entities attempting communication.

Marketing ideas suggested need to address this fundamental issue.

 

[Cleopatra]

Sorry Mercutio.

Science and Scientists appear boring to those that they have never been ( or it's long since they have last been) after an intellectual pursuit. Those who find scientists boring are usually those that they cannot even finish up a book.

Science is fascinating, challenging, beautiful and I admire those who understand it and I am trying to approach them even at a very very very large distance. I am a follower

The images of TItan didn't arrive to us because girls in bikini or sexy blackmen that know how to play Jazz worked for that. Although we don't know what those people do in their private lives I mean that it's something else that chracterizes those people and this is not their gender or their color.

Tthe images from Titan for example that fascinated many people around the world ( that in my opinion constitute the BEST ADVERTISMENT for science-- if I had a kid we would spend together hours looking for images on TV and on line trying together to understand the new/old world that we are discovering) came to us because PEOPLE that we don't know their gender or color spent years of their lives working to expand the horizons of the whole.

Look at this woman. Well, Mercutio this lady is a fine example of a skeptic. She has challenged fixed beliefs and traditons of ages in her country. she risked her life tgo save other fellow human being and I bet you that most of the people here don't even know her and maybe they needed to see her in a bikini to notice her.

She will never wear a bikini for you or for anybody. Maybe she has scars all over her body and guess what MAYBE she grasped the essence of education which is to turn us all from animals of various genders that we are into human beings and critical thinkers and she DOESN'T WANT to be again an animal of female gender( I am talking for the social lives of individuals of course). Asking somebody who has overcome the stage of gender to return to it in order to "advertize" what pushed him or her out if it is ridiculous.

Do you want criticial thinkers? Show them the images from Titan, fascinate them and explain them that the way to this kind odfintellectual excitement which is amazing and strong passes only through education not through bikinis and mini skirts. Explain that this is the outcome of the pioneers who dared to question beliefs that existed about the universe.

You see my dear even if we ask _you_ with your sweet smile to talk to the lady next door about the foolishness of astrology there would be a moment that you would have to talk about orbits, gravity, the ecliptic and that moment would be the unpleasant one for both of you.

I am not against of looking for better ways to pass a message although I don't think that a way of thinking constitutes a message but anyway but when I am reading cliches about old boring male skeptics, calenders, skepchicks and such I am thinking; are we looking for ways to frame our selves in a stereotype just because it seems that sells? I thought that we were fighting such things.

 

[jmercer]

As stated in a previous post, it is not the language such as Japanese or English but the language of critical thinking and the scientific method.

The basic tools of critical thinking and the critical thinking language are simply not there. IMHO Least of all in an ad' agency.

When words such as theory, falsifiability, double-blind, repeatable and evidence are not understood in a scientific context, it's a difficult job.

In conversations those words are often interpreted as: Guess. False. Blindfolded. Happens often. What-someone-said.

I would like to see some evidence of any organisation successfully marketing anything where the message is incomprehensible to the target audience.

The cartoon of a guy disciplining a dog springs to mind:

"Blah...blah...blah...SPOT...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...SPOT....blah...blah...blah...blah...blah...blah....SPOT."

Too many errors today are from the assumption of equal or similar knowledge between the two entities attempting communication.

Marketing ideas suggested need to address this fundamental issue.

I utterly agree that it's difficult - but please remember that as I've said - you don't teach anything through marketing.

Marketing is designed to get the target audience interested in something; afraid of something; motivated to contact an organization; or to influence their opinion on something. In reality, even accuracy and inclusion of facts is superfluous to the message.

Consider this as a possibly universal message:

Fade in to show a dollar counter ticking steadily upwards, showing millions and millons of dollars already spent every minute.

Fade in another line that says "Failure rate - 77%"

Fade in a question - "Would you pay for a product that fails 3 times out of four?"

Fade in a statement - "Millions of people do, every day."

Fade out, fade in a new utterly black screen with this message:

"Find out the truth. Visit www.findthetruth.com"

And that's where the fun begins.

 

[hammegk]

...

The Clockwork Dr Adequate. Wind him up... by mentioning Young Earth Creationism... and watch him go!

.....


Order now while stocks last.

You forgot the Penn action figure: Pull his string and he says "If you're not a Bright -- Atheist -- you're a F***ing Retard!".

What does the Amazing One doll say?

 

[jmercer]

"Find out the truth. Visit 'www.findthetruth.com'"

If a forum administrator would please make the above a nonfunctional URL in my original post a couple before this one, I'd appreciate it - I'd thought I'd set it up so it wouldn't be a "live" link, but apparently not.

And it redirects you to a woo site that I didn't know existed, so please be warned if you click on the link.

Thanks - sorry about that, folks.

 

[Nex]

If a forum administrator would please make the above a nonfunctional URL in my original post a couple before this one, I'd appreciate it - I'd thought I'd set it up so it wouldn't be a "live" link, but apparently not.

And it redirects you to a woo site that I didn't know existed, so please be warned if you click on the link.

Thanks - sorry about that, folks.

Aw, no, leave it. The irony's just too precious. I laughed my back end off when I saw where that link went...

 

[T'ai Chi]

You forgot the Penn action figure: Pull his string and he says "If you're not a Bright -- Atheist -- you're a F***ing Retard!".

What does the Amazing One doll say?

"Watch my Happy Days episode.... please???"