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How could a feng shui test be devised?

leonAzul said:
That much is true.

A better transliteration would be "qi" == "current" IMHO.
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Yeah, I use electrical terms to describe it as "KI" is energy and now knowing some of your background, we are saying basically the same thing.

To those who arent familiar- try this analogy.

The bodies "KI" center ( directly below the navel) is a battery, meridians are conductors and pressure points are rheostats ( switches)

Breathing develops the energy, PP manipulation and postures allow it to move and meditation directs it.

Its like DC current. you have the + usage of PPs which is the health aspect and the - which is the martial art application ( that hurts and injures)
 
LONGTABBER PE said:
Yeah, I use electrical terms to describe it as "KI" is energy and now knowing some of your background, we are saying basically the same thing.

To those who arent familiar- try this analogy.

The bodies "KI" center ( directly below the navel) is a battery, meridians are conductors and pressure points are rheostats ( switches)

Breathing develops the energy, PP manipulation and postures allow it to move and meditation directs it.

Its like DC current. you have the + usage of PPs which is the health aspect and the - which is the martial art application ( that hurts and injures)
Click to expand...

Your google-fu is rather impressive.

Your comprehension, not so much.

A more complete understanding of the art would also include the notion of healing.

Because that is what warriors do: they resolve conflict quickly, and not prolong conflict.
 
leonAzul said:
Your google-fu is rather impressive.

Your comprehension, not so much.

A more complete understanding of the art would also include the notion of healing.

Because that is what warriors do: they resolve conflict quickly, and not prolong conflict.
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Theres nothing google about it, its 30+ years of actually DOING it ( and registered with the WKSW and Korean Ki Do assn.) ( and actually living with the Suh family for times[ 3 of them anyway])

My comprehension ( and actual practice) is just fine.

You are correct about the healing. After 4th degree, much of the training shifts toward a heavy focus on that. ( pressure point accupressure, accupuncture, herbal medicines and such) ( I make my own Jow too)
 
BS

Sorry, but I gotta call B.S.
I was with you when you started saying KI is real, with no woo involved, then you got wooey with the meridians and pressure point bs.

If KI is real and physical, (like sunlight, as you say) then it should be measurable.

It seems if one could demonstrate how real and measurable it is, then they would qualify for the million.
 
Son of Rea said:
Sorry, but I gotta call B.S.
I was with you when you started saying KI is real, with no woo involved, then you got wooey with the meridians and pressure point bs.

If KI is real and physical, (like sunlight, as you say) then it should be measurable.

It seems if one could demonstrate how real and measurable it is, then they would qualify for the million.
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Thats your right but i can assure you accupuncture and meridians are quite real. The problem is that what they are and do versus what they are "believed to be and do" arent the same by a long shot.

One of the problems faced when trying to explain this is the enormous saturation of false and misleading information thats "presumed' to be the truth but is in fact false. ( due to new age woo, deliberately fraudulent claims and hollywood and such)

I dont see how it would qualify for the MDC as theres nothing "supernatural" about it.
 
LONGTABBER PE said:
Thats your right but i can assure you accupuncture and meridians are quite real. The problem is that what they are and do versus what they are "believed to be and do" arent the same by a long shot.

One of the problems faced when trying to explain this is the enormous saturation of false and misleading information thats "presumed' to be the truth but is in fact false. ( due to new age woo, deliberately fraudulent claims and hollywood and such)

I dont see how it would qualify for the MDC as theres nothing "supernatural" about it.
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Okay, but if that's true then you have to be able to describe what it is, and how it can be measured. Everything that's not supernatural can be measured somehow.
 
Prometheus said:
Okay, but if that's true then you have to be able to describe what it is, and how it can be measured. Everything that's not supernatural can be measured somehow.
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Fair enough but understand I'm an engineer and martial artist- I'm not a medical doctor nor am I a licensed accupuncturist and my personal skill level would be more of an advanced technician level. ( still have a lot to learn myself)

Last time i was on project in China ( 2.5 yrs ago) I got a lot of information from the site doctors ( who were Chinese and we talked martial art a lot)

The Chinese are in fact doing MRI technology and studying that right now ( according to them) but i cant begin to say more or if anyone else is doing it because i dont know.

Its understood over there that the points/meridians are a form of electrochemical energy ( you cant go on the ancient definitions because they didnt understand energy as we do today) so as an engineer, I'll attest that as physical energy there SHOULD be a way to measure it. Whether the correct technology has been applied or has been developed yet- I dont know.

One of the problems is that thru disinformation ( intentional and accidental) that false information is regarded as the "truth" and whats actually "true' sounds false in these subjects.

Depends on what specifically you want to know as to whether I can answer it for you.
 
leonAzul said:
Oh my!

As pedagogical means they are useful. As falsifiable science, not so much.

Either you are carnie or rube.
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No, neither- I just happen to have experience in the area.

You would be more correct to say that the concepts are not fully studied and understood. The NIH, WHO and AMA acknowledge it but in the same breath say more research is needed. ( and i agree) and the WHO has documented its effectiveness in controlled trials for several ailments.

One of the problems with the testing process is that this is a technique and not a medicine so its like a falsifiable science such as deep tissue massage or other type experiments and like everything else, nothing works every time or the same for each individual.
 
An energy source unknown by western medicine? The supposed manipulation of which is considered by believers to be a valid alternative medicine?
I'm pretty sure it would qualify for the MDC.

You claim it is an energy. What does it actually DO that is not subjective?
 
Son of Rea said:
An energy source unknown by western medicine? The supposed manipulation of which is considered by believers to be a valid alternative medicine?
I'm pretty sure it would qualify for the MDC.

You claim it is an energy. What does it actually DO that is not subjective?
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Lets get it straight here. "I" am making no claim- I am simply relating information I was taught. I am neither promoting,selling or defending.

>>believers to be a valid alternative medicine?

Heres an example of what I said earlier. What you posted there is part of that historical disinformation that people believe is correct. Nothing directed at you but that claim ( granted believed and published for decades) is false so theres no defending it.

Acupuncture is not a medicine of any sort. It is not a cure all, end all "miracle" technique. ( if it were, nobody would get sick and die in Asia but they do)

It is not a "stand alone" anything. All it is is stimulating the target organs and allows for a total body health program. ( it would be more correctly described as a health maintenance therapy than a primary treatment) as its used in conjunction with diet,exercise, herbal treatments,medicine and a healthy lifestyle.

>>>What does it actually DO that is not subjective

Thats what I understand is being looked into
 
LONGTABBER PE said:
...i can assure you accupuncture and meridians are quite real.
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So can you suggest a test of one of your beliefs, such as the existance of Qi or meridians? Something simple that could be made into a test for the MDC?
 
From the first link: "acupuncture, a popular treatment for relieving pain, has been demonstrated both through numerous clinical trials and laboratory experiments."

I can't post links yet, but I cite this article: (tinyurl DOT com SLASH 8plhp8) which shows that "sham" acupuncture relieves pain more effectively than a sugar pill, indicating that the mere methodology of treatment has an effect on perceived benefit.

Your second link merely states that acupuncture was used in the treatment of SARS with no indication on how effective it was.

>>believers to be a valid alternative medicine?

Heres an example of what I said earlier. What you posted there is part of that historical disinformation that people believe is correct. Nothing directed at you but that claim ( granted believed and published for decades) is false so theres no defending it.
Click to expand...

You're the one who said it's used for healing. And I quote:
You are correct about the healing. After 4th degree, much of the training shifts toward a heavy focus on that. ( pressure point accupressure, accupuncture, herbal medicines and such)
Click to expand...

And yet, after 30+ years of DOING it, you can't tell us what it is you're trying to get it to do?
 
Sherman Bay said:
So can you suggest a test of one of your beliefs, such as the existance of Qi or meridians? Something simple that could be made into a test for the MDC?
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No, I cannot ( thats the short answer) because that exceeds my knowledge level and from what I do know, theres nothing supernatural about it.

From SoR

>>>which shows that "sham" acupuncture relieves pain more effectively than a sugar pill, indicating that the mere methodology of treatment has an effect on perceived benefit.

agreed but quote the whole thing in proper context. I have had experiences where my own needles have worked and where they have not. As I said before, its just a part of the whole.

>>>Your second link merely states that acupuncture was used in the treatment of SARS with no indication on how effective it was.

cool your jets "sweet cheeks", that post was for a point in the other post and I didnt offer it as "conclusive" anything. It was a question of legitimacy, not one of performance. Even "drugs" and "modern medicine" dont always work either.

>>>You're the one who said it's used for healing. And I quote:

Yes and now put it into proper context to what I was specifically addressing

>>>And yet, after 30+ years of DOING it, you can't tell us what it is you're trying to get it to do?

Thats pretty simple. I'm getting it to do "nothing"- its a tool in the box, nothing more
 
While discussions of qi, or whatever you prefer to call it, may be interesting, they don't have an awful lot to do with how to test feng shui. Perhaps those who wish to discuss the validity of qi, acupuncture and so on could take it to a different thread?
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
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