• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

How could a feng shui test be devised?

leonAzul said:
Some so-called practitioners make such outrageous claims.

Others understand the metaphoric use of language and the sense that fengshui is no more than the systematic application of common sense, with regards to the use of space.

Granted, it does accommodate superstition, and perhaps for that reason it should be regarded with suspicion, yet it is no more wooish then any other mnemonic device.

As a method, it falsifiably yields some esthetically beautiful spaces.
Click to expand...

arthwollipot said:
Yes. I agree that it is a reliable codified system of aesthetics. Living in an aesthetically pleasing space may have a positive impact on a person's reported quality of life. This is why I think that the protocol as described wouldn't work.

What you'd need to do is have 10 feng shuiers and 10 qualified interior decorators arrange the interiors of the house, so that both are working on a baseline of aesthetic... ness.
Click to expand...

It's not just aesthetics, though. Feng Shui practictioners will also say things like, "arrange workspaces so that you are not working with your back to an entrance." The theory is that it's more difficult to concentrate on what you're doing if worry about the possibility of someone sneaking up on you is lurking in the back of your mind. Nothing to do with chi, but it's at least plausible that the feng shui principle might just be a wooish mental shortcut that points at a real psychological effect.
 
I studied Feng Shui a bit and I can't easily conceive of a way something like this could be tested, though I've given it some thought since I first saw this thread. The practitioners do not claim to be able to sense "chi" the way Rosa's healing touch practitioners did. They claim that by making changes to your house in meaningful ways, you are symbolically correcting bad chi and/or expressing your "intention" to the universe (of course) to help bring about the results you want. Paraphrased from a Feng Shui book I still have, spaces can be divided into 9 areas, called baguas:

Wealth/Fame and reputation/partnership
Family/Health/Children and creativity
Knowledge/Career/Helpful People

So for example, the health area of your house, bed or even desk is right in the center. The health area of your bedroom is right in the center. You can place something symbolic of good health in that area in order to maximize your chances of having good health (for example, a candle).

Here are a few ideas from the book:

A back door in the wealth area of your space leads to money quickly flowing out of your life. If you have a back door here, you can hang a chime either inside or outside the door. The chime helps "your wealth cycle through the universe and come back through the front door." Or you could hang a bell on the door knob, or a bamboo flute. Bamboo flutes are used for protection, in this case to protect your money.

Keep your bed from being right up against the wall to promote the flow of opportunities and the circulation of good fortune.

If the kitchen is the first door you see when you enter the front door of your house, there will be a tendency to develop eating disorders or digestive problems. To fix the problem, you can hang a drape to block it off or you can have something nearby to divert attention from the kitchen such as a fountain or statue.

In order for your life to keep "ticking along" you need all the clocks to work that are displayed in your house.

If your furnace is in the middle of your house, it may be burning up your health. You need to bring some element of water near the furnace to balance it, such as a plant (apparently because it needs to be watered), or you can put a small mirror on the furnace since mirrors represent the water element. The color for water is black, so you could even drape a black cloth on the furnace or duct work for the same effect.

Boarded up or blocked windows can affect your clarity and interfere with your ability to see all sides of an issue.

You can use candles for intention. Around money issues, burn a purple or lavendar candle (you would want to place this in the money area of your house, desk, etc). Pink for relationships. White for creativity. Red to get things moving in your life.

If a bathroom is on the second floor over your front door many opportunties may be "flushed away." You fix this by putting a mirror on the ceiling, or you could put a little mirror on the floor behind the toilet, or hang a chime or bell in the entry way.

And on and on it goes. That is just a tiny fraction of what feng shui practitioners believe.

ETA: It's true that some of it is common sense and harmless. For example, too much clutter is symbolic of disorganization in general. If you're home is full of things that irritate you, you won't be peaceful, etc.
 
Last edited:
ExMinister's list shows how hard it is to propose a test, and that's what I was afraid of.

From what I've heard (and from examples like P&T's show), the "principles" in that list are not universal among all Feng Shui-ers. Does a back door let energy out or in?

Thanks to Leftus for the P&T season & show. I'll go and look it up.
RemieV said:
Also, getting 'heads' or 'tails' on a coin toss is neither a positive nor a negative event, so I do not see how feng shui would affect it.
Click to expand...
So what kind of random event could have a positive/negative output?

I only mentioned the heads/tails thing because it's common for Feng Shui-ers to label otherwise neutral things as +/-, yin/yang. I'll bet someone somewhere will say heads is positive, and bingo! we've got something to test.

The whole concept of Feng Shui is that it affects otherwise random events. Does this only work on stuff that cannot be quantified? How convenient.

As far as the plant watering idea, I'm aware that this could be done without human intervention, but any such scheme that takes a long time to complete invites fraud, unconsciously or otherwise. It would be much better if the outcome could be determined in minutes or hours rather than months.

Just brainstorming, but...what if the claim was made that a particular object (statue, say) could bring good luck and another, the opposite. And the claim said that these object's powers are not diminished by being inside a sealed, opaque box. Then a random selection of such objects could be placed in homes and after a time, the home owners polled, "has your luck improved, reduced or stayed the same?" Boxes would have to be checked for tampering, etc.

That's not too good, but a little more quantifiable than other tests.
 
A Feng Shui test cannot be devised until a Feng Shui proponent comes forward with an objectively observable, beneficial effect of proper application of Feng Shui principles. Then it's just a matter of excluding outside variables in the test/observation procedure.

But the important thing is there can't be a test without a claim.
 
Hitch said:
But the important thing is there can't be a test without a claim.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, so perhaps this thread is in the wrong forum.

For those who requested the "prospective claimant" to come forward, that's probably not going to happen, for all the reasons we've seen ad infinitum in the past.

The only reason I started the thread in this forum is I would like to present my friend with a protocol for a test if such were possible. Otherwise, I will be facing the inevitable "you don't understand", "it's a different paradigm and can't be tested," and "it works, so why test it," and all the other excuses we have seen time & time again. It's hard for me to stand back, watch someone try to start a business such as Feng Shui interior decorating, and not feel like there is copious, but unwitting, fraud involved.
 
Have someone who claims to be a geniune "Feng Shui" master arrange the components of fifty homes.

Also, have someone who does not really claim to be a "Feng Shui" master arrange the components of fifty homes, but will claim to the occupants that he is such a master.

After a month, ask all the occupants if they think there is more positive energy flowing through the home. Even if it is a subjective measure, if all fifty of the "fake shui" homes report the same average level of the "real" Feng Shui homes, then you at least know that being a "master" has nothing to do with it.
 
Here's a common claim with a fairly objective measurement-


Most Feng Shui practitioners claim to improve the economic health of the household. Many placements draw money in or keep it from flowing down the toilet etc.

You have your statistically relevant number of households, one half decorated by a Feng Shui master, the other half by a random dude. You take down everyone's income, expenditures and savings. A given amount of time passes. You take everyone's financial info again and compare.

Yes, a bit time consuming, but in these economically troubled times, it won't be too hard to find people psyched about a free decorator, and the end result should be fairly clear with a large enough sample.
 
Cavemonster said:
You have your statistically relevant number of households, one half decorated by a Feng Shui master, the other half by a random dude.
Click to expand...
No no no! It can't be just some random dude. It has to be an experienced interior decorator - one who does not work by feng shui principles. Since aesthetics plays such a large part in feng shui, the "control" houses must be arranged in an aesthetically similar manner to the feng shui houses. Since our surroundings and our living spaces have such a profound effect on our morale, we must ensure that both the control houses and the feng shui houses are pleasant living spaces.
 
Since this is a general discussion about how to test feng shui and not related to any challenge application, moved to a more appropriate section.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
arthwollipot said:
No no no! It can't be just some random dude. It has to be an experienced interior decorator - one who does not work by feng shui principles. Since aesthetics plays such a large part in feng shui, the "control" houses must be arranged in an aesthetically similar manner to the feng shui houses. Since our surroundings and our living spaces have such a profound effect on our morale, we must ensure that both the control houses and the feng shui houses are pleasant living spaces.
Click to expand...

I think a big problem with any kind of test like this is the inherent subjectiveness of aesthetics. I don't think I've seen an area designed by an interior designer that I didn't think looked absolutely hideous, and I'm pretty sure they'd think the same about my flat. If we could do a large study then that might not be a problem but if we're only dealing with small numbers of people, any biases or differences in taste could easily give false results, positive or negative.
 
arthwollipot said:
No no no! It can't be just some random dude. It has to be an experienced interior decorator - one who does not work by feng shui principles. Since aesthetics plays such a large part in feng shui, the "control" houses must be arranged in an aesthetically similar manner to the feng shui houses. Since our surroundings and our living spaces have such a profound effect on our morale, we must ensure that both the control houses and the feng shui houses are pleasant living spaces.
Click to expand...

The problem I see with this is that the "master" could always say that the interior designer was using feng shui principals and just doesn't realise it.

I think you would have to have the master claim that the home is not "shuied" (is that a word?) correctly.
 
I once knew someone who studied feng shui and compared it to Santa Claus. We get presents on Christmas morning and we affectionetly attribute them to Santa Claus out of fun and tradition and we all know there is no such thing. Feng shui experts make a space pleasing, aesthetic, functional, and maybe even less stressful and attribute it to chi, or some energy force knowing full well that's just the myth that underlies their decorating abilities. Yes, some people may believe in Santa with all their hearts and so, I'm sure, it's true with feng shui.

Anyway, that's how it was described to me.
 
I’ve been doing some thinking about this and have come up with what might be a workable test of Feng Shui, though whether it would represent anything paranormal or not, I don’t know.

As I understand it, one of the things Feng Shui can do is create a relaxing space. So the test starts with exposing tests subjects to stressful situations or imagery to get their heart rate, breathing, brainwave patterns, etc. above normal. Then put them in a “relaxing” room according to Feng Shui principles to calm them down. Compare the response times to other subjects given a jarring “unrelaxing” room to see if they relax more quickly. I don’t think anyone would see anything paranormal in that test.

So… we have the Feng Shui practitioner create two rooms: one properly relaxing according to Feng Shui principles, and the second that breaks those principles in such a way that the untrained eye would perceive it as looking more relaxing than the “real thing.” If a significant number of observers think the bad room looks more relaxing, but tests show that the properly decorated room works consistently better, I think we’d have a case for there being something to Feng Shui.

But would it prove that there was anything paranormal going on?
 
Last edited:
Hitch said:
I’ve been doing some thinking about this and have come up with what might be a workable test of Feng Shui, though whether it would represent anything paranormal or not, I don’t know.

As I understand it, one of the things Feng Shui can do is create a relaxing space. So the test starts with exposing tests subjects to stressful situations or imagery to get their heart rate, breathing, brainwave patterns, etc. above normal. Then put them in a “relaxing” room according to Feng Shui principles to calm them down. Compare the response times to other subjects given a jarring “unrelaxing” room to see if they relax more quickly. I don’t think anyone would see anything paranormal in that test.

So… we have the Feng Shui practitioner create two rooms: one properly relaxing according to Feng Shui principles, and the second that breaks those principles in such a way that the untrained eye would perceive it as looking more relaxing than the “real thing.” If a significant number of observers think the bad room looks more relaxing, but tests show that the properly decorated room works consistently better, I think we’d have a case for there being something to Feng Shui.

But would it prove that there was anything paranormal going on?
Click to expand...

Doubtful, since the removal from a stress source alone induces a certain amount of relaxation. Also, subjecting humans to stress - how ever mild - violates the MDC rules.

Nah, we will have to wait for one of those experts to make a specific claim.

Experience (e.g. with homeopaths) suggests this likely will not happen because said experts would risk losing credibility among their clients and therefor risk their livelyhood.
 
GzuzKryzt said:
Nah, we will have to wait for one of those experts to make a specific claim.
Click to expand...
Looks like it. It would be nice if someone like that would come to this thread all volunteer-like. I'll try to get a claim out of my friend, but I want to tread lightly to avoid making her mad, so don't hold your breath.
 
Seems like you'd want to limit your test to one simple, unambiguous result. I.e., instead of "general wellbeing" go for "Make your MANMEAT to grow into a 14-INCH, WRIST THICK MONSER in only 30 DAYZ!!!!!"

Glancing through ExMinister's list though, I don't see anything that quantifiable (yet sadly elusive... sigh...). If, however, there were even one specific claim a FS'ist could present (my hopes are still on MONSTER MANMEAT), a protocol could go something like this:

1) JREF personnel, with Applicant present, go to Randi's house and begin rolling video uninterrupted from time of arrival;
2) Randi's [applicable test subject] is measured;
3) Applicant has [specified time period] to rearrange Randi's abode;
4) After one month, Randi's [applicable test subject] is re-measured.

If it works on Randi, I would happily volunteer my own [applicable test subject] for the secondary trial.

Applicant gets the $1M; Randi and I both get something worth much, much more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom