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How Can they Stop the Oil Spill?

rwguinn said:
No dynamics are expected. The pipe rams close and stop any drill pipe motion (up or down) at the next tool-joint. The shear ram should be positioned such that a tool-joint is not at the cutting point under either scenario. That is, the shear rams should be a couple of feet more or less above the pipe rams.
Answers my questions-I assume the pipe rams have sufficient shear strength to stop a moving pipe-under normal circumstances.
Normal conditions, probably.

I suspect few tests have been conducted on an in-balance well suddenly offered 1000's of feet of sea-water rather than 16+ ppg mud. I've not heard how much mud had been displaced, but have read they had a possible 10000'; 5000 water depth + 5000 to last set cement plug.
 
I don't know what the original mud density was, but assuming 16ppg plus, they lost nearly 2000psi when they displaced the riser. If they displaced to 10000ft, twice that. This is why I've said from the start that I just cannot understand why they would do so before being sure the well was cemented off. It seems someone wanted to spot a balanced plug in water instead of mud. Fine , once you have 100% certainty the well is dead , isolated and stable.
 
EHocking--
Originally Posted by trvlr2 View Post
...Ehocking pooh-poohed the bonus system. Which bonus do you think these guys were suspending, and why?
At least address what I posted (bolding added)
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
You'd be surprised how little your bonus scenario exists outside of the US. I have not encountered the sorts of incentive schemes you outlined for many many years.
Also, to nitpick, from the article quoted.,
Quote:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/article/...here_copyright
He said the four deaths in 2009 occurred on different rigs in four different countries. Reports on one death, in Azerbaijan, appeared in the media, but Cantwell declined to disclose other locations and whether any were in U.S. waters. None were related to drilling, he said.

What I meant was that before another BOP could be placed, the floating riser and the drill pipe must be removed from the original BOP. I assume?

I took the article about the safety and bonus cessation , to be about safety company-wide and not necessarily only to do with deaths. BP is a foreign company. Therefore some execs may get safety bonuses, in other locations, not just here. BP, a foreign company, seems to have been in the habit of awarding bonuses on safety, previous to this April. And you would be aware of any other company's incentive plans?
And, I was quite wrong about the reason for the party- it was not about bonus. The rig was to have been awarded a safety award. The award was the party's premise. Murphy attended.
RE the Safety Plan. You cited the blanket plan on file with MMS. No work in US without it. There is supposed to be a site-specific plan filed for every drilling location. BP assured the MMS that nothing could go wrong(OK, highly unlikely),for this location. Just why MMS let them skate, is a darned good question. Also, in the same letter, the blanket plan was referred to. All the bases were covered. Not.
You can make all the pretty paper you want, but the plan won't work if you haven't got resources nearby for CYA. The fact that the first dome was built, after the fact, in McDermott's yard*(looked like their place)* in Fourchon, and I think the top hat as well , a shows that the plan was not in place. How about only one flame boom in the whole region? Heck, I think the entire US. Great plan.

JJ__ Yes, DPs can and will go down. I personally don't like them. They can do some things much better than I, but cannot be left unsupervised for one minute. The machinery does not make good situational estimates. I think people get complacent, counting on the redundancy and raw power to bail them out of bad situations. Thus we have incidents.

Did anyone else catch the fact that the cement used was something new? It is referred to in the Times-Picayune cite. Another reason to have been very conservative with procedures.


As far as the hay goes, it could help. I think chopped into short pieces would help it absorb. Probably a mix of short and long, would be best, to hold the oil together so it can be contained/dealt with.
No better time than now , to go out and throw some on the slick to see how it works with crude. Beats throwing more petroleum distillates into the water(dispersants), and way cheaper. I think the crude could be recovered, too, without too much trouble.
































































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What I meant was that before another BOP could be placed, the floating riser and the drill pipe must be removed from the original BOP. I assume?
Yes. Normally you could disconnect from the top of the BOP stack using the lower marine riser package (LMRP). If there had been time to initiate emergency disconnect of the LMRP the rig may not have suffered a fire, or perhaps only a flash fire which would then have been starved of a fuel source, since the rig would have been no longer connected to the well.

BP's plan to shear the riser and LMRP and stab in a BOP on top of the existing one.

Problem is, if it is done now, they would open up the full bore of the BOP and the oil release would be greater. At the moment the oil flow is being restricted by the kinked-over riser on top of the LMRP. Removing the riser to attach a 2nd BOP would also remove this restriction.
I took the article about the safety and bonus cessation , to be about safety company-wide and not necessarily only to do with deaths. BP is a foreign company. Therefore some execs may get safety bonuses, in other locations, not just here. BP, a foreign company, seems to have been in the habit of awarding bonuses on safety, previous to this April. And you would be aware of any other company's incentive plans?
You have that a bit wrong.

It was TRANSOCEAN that stopped paying their executives bonuses after safety concerns. And as it was a filing with the NYSE, it may well have only been related to US executives.

And yes, I am aware of other contractor/operator incentive plans in a number of countries over the years.

As I initially said, outside of the US, these sorts of bonus schemes are not as common these days.
You cited the blanket plan on file with MMS. No work in US without it. There is supposed to be a site-specific plan filed for every drilling location. BP assured the MMS that nothing could go wrong(OK, highly unlikely),for this location.
You misunderstand the document, they do not say that at all. Further more an exploration plan was lodged at the MMS that outlines their Oil Spill Response for this activity ( here (PDF).

Relevant section is on page 28 and states (in part):
The proposed activities are in the Central Planning Area of the GOM. Therefore a site-specific Oil Spill Response Plan (OSRP) is not required for this plan.

A worst-case scenario is presented and the MMS subsequently,

... certify that BP Exploration & Production Inc. has the capability to respond, to the maximum extent practicable, to a worst-case discharge, or a substantiantial threat of such a discharge,..
Just why MMS let them skate, is a darned good question. Also, in the same letter, the blanket plan was referred to. All the bases were covered. Not.
See above.
You can make all the pretty paper you want, but the plan won't work if you haven't got resources nearby for CYA.
Which they had.
The fact that the first dome was built, after the fact, in McDermott's yard*(looked like their place)* in Fourchon, and I think the top hat as well , a shows that the plan was not in place.
Because they are fabricated when needed. They are not "regular" spill control equipment.
How about only one flame boom in the whole region? Heck, I think the entire US. Great plan.
Burning is a last resort and not a good one for the environment, but, there also seems to be a great deal of confusion of the supply of fire boom, especially in light of the indication that The National Response Corporation (one of the response companies in BP OSRP) lists fire boom stored at Morgan city LA, and also by their other response company, Marine Spill Response Corporation in Lake Charles, LA.

I have no idea why BP's prime response companies would not have been supplying this equipment at BP's request.
I think people get complacent, counting on the redundancy and raw power to bail them out of bad situations. Thus we have incidents.
So no real difference to the current situation, then. Unfounded reliance on badly maintained equipment and not following procedures cause accidents. No amount of regulatory requirements, safety plans, redundancies and emergency response plans can prevent an incident when people are involved.
Did anyone else catch the fact that the cement used was something new? It is referred to in the Times-Picayune cite. Another reason to have been very conservative with procedures.
The cement recipe is not the issue. After each job, especially a P&A/suspension plug across a reservoir formation, the cement plug is tested for physical strength as well as pressure tested for integrity. If this is done correctly, BP would have known if the cement plug was sufficient for the job. The fact that the type of cement recipe was relatively new would make this procedure all the more important.

Again, the recipe for the cement is not the key issue.
It was the testing of it and the displacing the riser to seawater too early that is the real issue (i.e. procedures and good practice).
 
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No amount of regulatory requirements, safety plans, redundancies and emergency response plans can prevent an incident when people are involved.


If drillers are drilling in places where they are unable to quickly stop oil leaking into the sea when things go wrong then they shouldn't be allowed to drill there at all. Such a regulation would have prevented this incident.
 
If drillers are drilling in places where they are unable to quickly stop oil leaking into the sea when things go wrong then they shouldn't be allowed to drill there at all. Such a regulation would have prevented this incident.

Did a pig just fly past my head? JJ and I actually agree on something! :D
 
You agree that having regulations banning accidents would actually stop accidents?

Seriously?
 
If drillers are drilling in places where they are unable to quickly stop oil leaking into the sea when things go wrong then they shouldn't be allowed to drill there at all. Such a regulation would have prevented this incident.
Both regulations and procedures are in place to prevent (which is key) such incidents.

When people circumvent procedures and safe work practices, we have incidents like this.

Regulations are worthless IF THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWED.

Which seems to be the case here.
 
A regulation that banned deep sea drilling would certainly stop all deep sea drilling accidents.
... and put the drilling closer to shore, so if there IS an accident, there is even less time to respond before a spill hits shore...

Why not ban all drilling?

No oil spills. No greenhouse gas issues. Solved.
 
What checks were in place to ensure that regulations were being adhered to?

If regulations are ignored then more regulation is required in the form of better policing.

There may also be outside pressures and business cultures that encourage people to disregard regulations.

A regulation banning deep sea drilling would have prevented this incident and such a regulation would be hard to circumvent.
 
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... and put the drilling closer to shore, so if there IS an accident, there is even less time to respond before a spill hits shore...

Why not ban all drilling?

No oil spills. No greenhouse gas issues. Solved.


It's worth a try. We're going to have to wean ourselves off oil sooner or later.

If oil companies are unable to stop leaks quickly closer to shore then banning drilling there might not be a bad idea either. It is questionable whether any of the responses to the accident so far will have ameliorated its environmental/economic impact.
 
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It's worth a try. We're going to have to wean ourselves off oil sooner or later.

If oil companies are unable to stop leaks quickly closer to shore then banning drilling there might not be a bad idea either. It is questionable whether any of the responses to the accident so far will have ameliorated its environmental/economic impact.
The Exxon Valdez inaccident hasn't stopped tankers shipping oil out of Prince William Sound.

After a flurry of politicians beating their breasts and demanding regulatory changes, this too shall pass.

"Fortunately" for the politicians the public tends to have a short memory...
 
Begin quote:
Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM #247
EHocking
Master Poster

EHocking's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,464

Originally Posted by trvlr2 View Post
What I meant was that before another BOP could be placed, the floating riser and the drill pipe must be removed from the original BOP. I assume?
Yes. Normally you could disconnect from the top of the BOP stack using the lower marine riser package (LMRP). If there had been time to initiate emergency disconnect of the LMRP the rig may not have suffered a fire, or perhaps only a flash fire which would then have been starved of a fuel source, since the rig would have been no longer connected to the well.

BP's plan to shear the riser and LMRP and stab in a BOP on top of the existing one.

Problem is, if it is done now, they would open up the full bore of the BOP and the oil release would be greater. At the moment the oil flow is being restricted by the kinked-over riser on top of the LMRP. Removing the riser to attach a 2nd BOP would also remove this restriction.
Quote:
I took the article about the safety and bonus cessation , to be about safety company-wide and not necessarily only to do with deaths. BP is a foreign company. Therefore some execs may get safety bonuses, in other locations, not just here. BP, a foreign company, seems to have been in the habit of awarding bonuses on safety, previous to this April. And you would be aware of any other company's incentive plans?
You have that a bit wrong.

It was TRANSOCEAN that stopped paying their executives bonuses after safety concerns. And as it was a filing with the NYSE, it may well have only been related to US executives.

And yes, I am aware of other contractor/operator incentive plans in a number of countries over the years.

As I initially said, outside of the US, these sorts of bonus schemes are not as common these days.
Quote:
You cited the blanket plan on file with MMS. No work in US without it. There is supposed to be a site-specific plan filed for every drilling location. BP assured the MMS that nothing could go wrong(OK, highly unlikely),for this location.
You misunderstand the document, they do not say that at all. Further more an exploration plan was lodged at the MMS that outlines their Oil Spill Response for this activity ( here (PDF).

Relevant section is on page 28 and states (in part):
Quote:
The proposed activities are in the Central Planning Area of the GOM. Therefore a site-specific Oil Spill Response Plan (OSRP) is not required for this plan.
A worst-case scenario is presented and the MMS subsequently,

Quote:
... certify that BP Exploration & Production Inc. has the capability to respond, to the maximum extent practicable, to a worst-case discharge, or a substantiantial threat of such a discharge,..
Quote:
Just why MMS let them skate, is a darned good question. Also, in the same letter, the blanket plan was referred to. All the bases were covered. Not.
See above.
Quote:
You can make all the pretty paper you want, but the plan won't work if you haven't got resources nearby for CYA.
Which they had.
Quote:
The fact that the first dome was built, after the fact, in McDermott's yard*(looked like their place)* in Fourchon, and I think the top hat as well , a shows that the plan was not in place.
Because they are fabricated when needed. They are not "regular" spill control equipment.
Quote:
How about only one flame boom in the whole region? Heck, I think the entire US. Great plan.
Burning is a last resort and not a good one for the environment, but, there also seems to be a great deal of confusion of the supply of fire boom, especially in light of the indication that The National Response Corporation (one of the response companies in BP OSRP) lists fire boom stored at Morgan city LA, and also by their other response company, Marine Spill Response Corporation in Lake Charles, LA.

I have no idea why BP's prime response companies would not have been supplying this equipment at BP's request.
Quote:
I think people get complacent, counting on the redundancy and raw power to bail them out of bad situations. Thus we have incidents.
So no real difference to the current situation, then. Unfounded reliance on badly maintained equipment and not following procedures cause accidents. No amount of regulatory requirements, safety plans, redundancies and emergency response plans can prevent an incident when people are involved.
Quote:
Did anyone else catch the fact that the cement used was something new? It is referred to in the Times-Picayune cite. Another reason to have been very conservative with procedures.
The cement recipe is not the issue. After each job, especially a P&A/suspension plug across a reservoir formation, the cement plug is tested for physical strength as well as pressure tested for integrity. If this is done correctly, BP would have known if the cement plug was sufficient for the job. The fact that the type of cement recipe was relatively new would make this procedure all the more important.

Again, the recipe for the cement is not the key issue.
It was the testing of it and the displacing the riser to seawater too early that is the real issue (i.e. procedures and good practice).
End Quote__________________

Yes, I was wrong. Transunion is the foreign company who did pay bonus on production. I mis- spoke also, that those were safety bonuses; they were production bonuses. The two have an inverse relation.
Perhaps it is not done as often as before, but arguing that you would know practices of every outfit world wide seems a variety of arguing from ignorance. Unless you are omniscient. I favor meaningful bonuses paid for working safely, not for running with scissors.
I agree that people are the cause of accidents. One must design systems to account for that-making it easier and hopefully, rewarding, to do the safe thing. And pay well enough to get and keep employees who comply, as well as attract enough new talent to account for attrition. Ill considered regulation does not usually help .


From the Plan Information form: No new or unusual technology will be used to conduct activities.(2.3)
I submit that the cement may have been a factor. Treating new materials the same way as old, may cause problems. Any deviation in the mix may change the properties of the final product drastically. Perhaps the tests done were properly done, but WRT older cement types. Agreed, it may not have been "the" key issue.

Same Document, Section 2.0: 2.7. No Blowout scenario required
So, the Plan, had NO Plan. I need not go further into details; the results speak for themselves. QED.
Re site-specific plan: that exemption(Central Area) is one reason why I stated that there was a skate going on. MMS and oilcos are/have been in bed for a while. Look it up yourself. The lack of response and the lag time, indicates that the plan was largely whitewash. See results.
While the MMS has acted criminally,IMO, BP has acted worse, IMO, because they have a much better idea of what really is happening. And they will reap their reward. Many of us, if not all, will also pay for their lapses.
In an earlier post, you stated words to the effect that top hats , etc., were on standby all around the world. Maybe; just not here. Neither were the correct booms, for burning or containment. Look at the response and lag time.
You say that burning it is bad for the environment; crude washing onto the wetlands, reefs,beaches, is better?
So, back to the OP.
The more I think on it, the more I think that explosives might have been/be useful to shut down the well. Not nukes, but properly applied conventional explosives. To shear the riser and drill pipe. Or kink them properly, not shear. I fear that the present kinked portion is subject to the abrasives sandblasting through the opening, weakening and enlarging the existing leak. Abrasive fluids can readily cut steel.
Time is the factor determining the extent of the environmental damage. If we had a few thousand years to let it spew out, and let things recover, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, we view things in reference to our own life spans, not Earth's. Earth Abides. Yeah, I know; it just popped into my head.
 
Begin quote:<snip>
Please look up how to use the quote function I'm finding it hard to work out what you wish to me to respond to.
Yes, I was wrong. Transunion
Transocean
is the foreign company who did pay bonus on production. I mis- spoke also, that those were safety bonuses; they were production bonuses. The two have an inverse relation.
No. They have no relation to drilling a well.
Perhaps it is not done as often as before, but arguing that you would know practices of every outfit world wide seems a variety of arguing from ignorance. Unless you are omniscient.
Oh, please. Yours was purely conjecture on what these bonuses were, and what they were paid for - and was wrong. Arguing from ignorance indeed.

I merely commented, based on my experience working for an operator and having been involved with incentive schemes myself, that your conjectures were ill informed.
I favor meaningful bonuses paid for working safely, not for running with scissors.
Which many rig contractors have in place. I have seen some excellent one that have changed the mind-set of the rig personnel and ultimately reduced incidents.
I agree that people are the cause of accidents. One must design systems to account for that-making it easier and hopefully, rewarding, to do the safe thing. And pay well enough to get and keep employees who comply, as well as attract enough new talent to account for attrition. Ill considered regulation does not usually help .
You are conflating two totally different things. Regulations have nothing to do with individual contractors' work practices except to give them minimum requirements. Safety schemes are best practice driven by contractors, operators and service companies to protect their people, equipment and investment.
From the Plan Information form: No new or unusual technology will be used to conduct activities.(2.3). I submit that the cement may have been a factor.
The technology of foam cementing is not new, it's been around for years. Much is made of the fact that N2 was used, I think it's a red herring and poor practices, before, during and after the job are more important factors. See Halliburton's site for more on foam cementing.
I'd hazard the PlugSeal™ system is the one used on this well
Treating new materials the same way as old, may cause problems. Any deviation in the mix may change the properties of the final product drastically. Perhaps the tests done were properly done, but WRT older cement types.
Each cement recipe comes with documented analysis and recommendations on it's strengths and setting times, it's not a matter of a couple of Good Ole Boys standing around a cement mixer and say, "I wonder what would happen if I added this?".
Agreed, it may not have been "the" key issue.
And after all this, it may well have been the key to the problem.

We can only expect that to come out in the subsequent investigation that will have access to the cementing programme from the operator, the recipe and lab analysis from the cementer as well as assessments of the downhole conditions and the activity before, during and after the job.

Anything else is speculation - and pointless speculation, since we don't have any details of the job.
Same Document, Section 2.0: 2.7. No Blowout scenario required
So, the Plan, had NO Plan. I need not go further into details; the results speak for themselves. QED.
Again, you are wrong. Very wrong.

Here's that section quoted in full,
"A scenario for a potential blowout of the well from which BP would expect to have the highest volume of liquid hydrocarbons is not required for the operations proposed in this EP."

As you said before, as well as a regional response plan, BP would need to submit a well specific plan. Both complement each other and are not meant to be read in isolation.

Section 2.7 merely means that in the 2 well exploration plan, no further blow out plan is required for this particular operation as the scenario is covered in the regional plan. Appendix H to be precise.
Re site-specific plan: that exemption(Central Area) is one reason why I stated that there was a skate going on. MMS and oilcos are/have been in bed for a while. Look it up yourself.
We've been through that.
The lack of response and the lag time, indicates that the plan was largely whitewash. See results.
Response time was immediate - as soon as the rig caught fire an Emergency Response Plan kicked in.
A search and rescue effort had been operating for 48 hours before the rig sank. Dispersants were in place and an exclusion zone around the rig established and NOAA began issuing Marine Pollution Surveillance reports 2 days before the first oil slick was spotted on the water surface.

Your accusation of whitewash is just plain wrong.

Demonise BP as much as you wish - but at least get the facts right.
While the MMS has acted criminally,IMO, BP has acted worse, IMO, because they have a much better idea of what really is happening. And they will reap their reward. Many of us, if not all, will also pay for their lapses.
In an earlier post, you stated words to the effect that top hats , etc., were on standby all around the world. Maybe; just not here. Neither were the correct booms, for burning or containment. Look at the response and lag time.
I have and as indicated in the links I have provided, you are incorrect.
You say that burning it is bad for the environment; crude washing onto the wetlands, reefs,beaches, is better?
ALL options are assessed on the effectiveness and their affect on the environment.

That's the point of a Reponse Plan.

Section 19 addresses the in situ burn option and is only one of many response strategies.

ALL the options would be considered, not just by BP, but the relevant state and national bodies involved in the response.
So, back to the OP.
The more I think on it, the more I think that explosives might have been/be useful to shut down the well. Not nukes, but properly applied conventional explosives. To shear the riser and drill pipe.
That would merely remove the current obstructions to the flow and open the wellhead for full bore flow of oil. See earlier in the thread for that discussio.
Or kink them properly, not shear. I fear that the present kinked portion is subject to the abrasives sandblasting through the opening, weakening and enlarging the existing leak. Abrasive fluids can readily cut steel.
Thus the "top kill" option to reduce fluid flow at the weak points in the riser - as outlined previously in the thread.
 
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