How can the world forgive Germany?

;)
Belz... said:
Yes, if that hypothesis was correct, Hitler would be a *********** genius. I mean, no major war since then, right ?
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You do know I'm joking, right? I'm playing on an actual quote and the fact that Gandhi was so against war he wouldn't have even fought against Hitler. Or so I've been told he said, when asked.

But if we limit the field of battle to Europe and accept your caveat of Major war, yeah. Since then the planet has seen the last death throes of Colonialism and and a few proxy wars. WW2 left a pretty bad taste in Europes's mouth for fighting among themselves, and the US has had to work pretty hard to rope European nations in to helping them go fight brown people.

I don't seriously ascribe Hitler any positive characteristics whatever. How a stupid, artless, psychotic dweeb achieved that much power confuses me. At least Kaddafi was a snappy dresser and Assad is a very handsome fellow.
 
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Why should the generations born after the Nazi regime was destroyed have to bear the guilt for the actions of Nazi Germany?
 
I haven't read the whole thread. Has anyone pointed out how eurocentric the first post is? Hitler's Germany did terrible things to Europeans, in Europe. What he did to Africans in Africa wasn't any worse than what other colonial powers did to Africans in Africa. Asia and the Pacific region were worried about Japan, not Germany.
 
Dcdrac said:
Why should the generations born after the Nazi regime was destroyed have to bear the guilt for the actions of Nazi Germany?
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Likewise, why should the generations of non-Germans born after bear the resentment?

Hakuna matata. It's in the past. Learn and move on.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
Likewise, why should the generations of non-Germans born after bear the resentment?
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I think that Germany's devastation and subsequent occupation makes it easier to accept that the descendants of the belligerants did not inherit a benefit that could be resented. I have a relative who survived by literally eating his neighbour's cat in 1945.

This is why there may be special attention paid to the businesses or individuals who could possibly be net beneficiaries, even generations removed.

For example, if we discover that a German man my age (born 1968), raised in West Germany, was prosperous because he inherited a pile of diamonds his grandfather looted from a Polish family during the invasion of 1939... I feel there is an injustice to be addressed even though the crime was done by an ancestor 75 years ago.

The expectation even today is to repatriate works of art if they are discovered in private collections. Inheriting them without coming forward is considered unethical.
 
Presumably there is a statute of limitation on such theft, otherwise Australia and America would be getting handed back (not to mention innumerable other historic examples)? Or is it the lack of individual ownership that is the differentiator?
 
shuttlt said:
Presumably there is a statute of limitation on such theft, otherwise Australia and America would be getting handed back (not to mention innumerable other historic examples)? Or is it the lack of individual ownership that is the differentiator?
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Google "Elgin Marbles" and "NAGPRA" for variations on the the question.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
;)

You do know I'm joking, right? I'm playing on an actual quote and the fact that Gandhi was so against war he wouldn't have even fought against Hitler. Or so I've been told he said, when asked.

But if we limit the field of battle to Europe and accept your caveat of Major war, yeah. Since then the planet has seen the last death throes of Colonialism and and a few proxy wars. WW2 left a pretty bad taste in Europes's mouth for fighting among themselves, and the US has had to work pretty hard to rope European nations in to helping them go fight brown people.

I don't seriously ascribe Hitler any positive characteristics whatever. How a stupid, artless, psychotic dweeb achieved that much power confuses me. At least Kaddafi was a snappy dresser and Assad is a very handsome fellow.
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Symbology leaves a trail.

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Nothing the Nazi did hadn't been done before. The Nazi era simply used the available science and technology. That was new. The attitude wielding the weapons wasn't.


It is obvious that 'Nazi' wasn't really anything new, any more than white supremacy and its aversion to getting its own way through any means it could, is.

Indeed it is quite obvious that any hue of race is capable of extreme evil against others.

The question of forgiveness is most obviously one for those who feel they have been adversely affected by past atrocities and requires contrition on the part of the offender in order that respect can be found.

No contrition indicates no respect.

In relation to forgiving, it is best understood that it can be achieved without contrition from the offending party but that this simply means that respect will never be granted to that which would remain haughty and above remorse. It does not matter that the offenders are in a position of power over those they practice(d) their evil upon. No genuine respect can ever be granted to such.

It is obvious that the evolution of human society has had at its prow the racially based signature of bloodshed, mass killings, genocide, false treaties, and every other tool suitable for the purpose of subjugation of other races and cultures and for whatever reason the 'white' races were able to make an exact science out of the whole process.

It is equally understandable that all things human came from what can be regarded as savage ancestry and in some ways quite understandable that the god ideas created and used also as a tool for this taming of savagery were a natural extension of this process.

People bemoan the historical existence of modern America and its willingness to interfere with certain cultures who bully weaker cultures and it certainly can't be denied that Nazi-like methods had a part to play in American history but the reality is that the Nazi wished to dominate the whole world and the whole world said '**** you Nazis' and ********** them good.

A conglomeration of parties who know well the art of bulling brought the Nazi regime to its death.

So we have a history which is brutal to look at and hard to forgive. Certain attitudes prevail which are condescending and patronizing. It is unknown if the end justifies the means because it is unknown as to what exactly 'the end' is in relation to history. What are the humans who are in controlling positions wanting out of all this?

Apparently the focus is on space exploration, and further resource gathering 'out there'.
 
shuttlt said:
Presumably there is a statute of limitation on such theft, otherwise Australia and America would be getting handed back (not to mention innumerable other historic examples)? Or is it the lack of individual ownership that is the differentiator?
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Not a statute of limitation, no. The legalness is the product of generations of moral aloofness rather than any proactive choice. It was a successful invasion and colonization by previous generations. Reversing the injustice would impact people who did not personally commit the crime and arguably create a new injustice. It's a complicated moral problem.
 
dudalb said:
Not quite true.A Werewolf team did kill the American appointed Mayor of Aachen as a traitor,but that was about the only sucess they ever had. And that was was a hit and run job with against an unarmed opponent,much more like a Mafia hit then a military operation. As far as guerilla operations agains the allied forces, the Werewolf plan was a complete and total bust. It might have been intended serously, but it ended up being mainly another Joseph Goebbles propaganada gimmick.
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That assassination happened during the war though, not after it.
 
a_unique_person said:
Even as a species we can be incredibly stupid, look at global warming, for instance. As soon as we need to look a few generations into the future, we lose the ability to act for our own species benefit.
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I am not so sure that this is because of lack of intelligence...
 
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