How can the world forgive Germany?

The OT is the Jewish version so I am correct when I stated that the Jews are responsible for the one god concept which now today permeates the world in its three major versions.

My understanding is that the Jews got this data from the tribes they interacted with and collated it together to manifest this one god idea then they attempted to inject that into their own culture and gave themselves the title of the chosen people of this god.

This seriously backfired for them, as history confirms, but it also worked its magic for them in other ways.


what the heck does this have to do with the topic, other than suggesting that "the jews" somehow had it coming?
 
This is what I mis-remembered:

Prosecutors charge 88-year-old man over 1944 Nazi massacre at Oradour-Sur-Glane – where 642 villagers were shot and burnt

An 88-year-old former member of an SS armored division has been charged with murder and accessory to murder for allegedly taking part in the massacre of 642 French villagers by Nazi soldiers during World War Two.

The man, named only as Werner C, from Cologne, has been charged with 25 counts of murder and hundreds of counts of accessory to murder in connection with the slaughter in Oradour-sur-Glane.

The investigation into the massacre where almost the entire population of the village, including more than 400 women and children, was gunned down or burned alive on June 10, 1944, was re-opened by German prosecutors last year

Continues...
 
People keep bringing up the Native Americans. No one's especially bothered by the massacres, why hold a grudge against Germany?

Maybe I misunderstand the argument, but the problem I see is this: Native Americans are still suffering from their history. The rates of alcoholism and domestic abuse on reservations are through the roof, education levels are low, unemployment is high.

Native Americans aren't lazy, good-for-nothing lowlifes. They have a long history of disenfranchisement, and their present state is, in part, a product of that. If we as Americans don't feel responsible -- even though our generation didn't cause the problems -- what's going to motivate us to help?

Sometimes not forgiving ourselves is the best thing we can do for each other.

Seems to me that this state of 'forgiving ourselves' in this case is more like skimming over the painful details in order to avoid facing the fact of inhuman actions that can be assigned, not to race so much as attitude and systems which allow and even rely on those attitudes in order to manifest as 'the preferred way of doing things'.

The real problem is that building civilization has some really uncivilized foundations and a careless '**** the moronic non intellectuals and their woo ways' mentality.
 
I could not explain it like a Rabbi could. Plus, you appear to have a monolithic image of Jews which is false. The only antidote is to converse with real, actual, believing Jews.


I'm no expert, but I don't think any of that is true...


source

and...


source


Personally, I think the history of the world is spectacularly more complicated -- and involved a whole lot more people -- than that.


I'm pretty sure this is not what most observant Jews believe.

Organised religion. Old dead cultures who also had 'one god' concepts are not relevant, apart from being able to perhaps trace how the idea itself seemed to happen around the same time period as your source indicates.

Of course the history of the world is more complicated and involved a whole lot more people but the focus is specific to the 'World War' and those of that world which were involved in it, and specifically the Nazi Germans and the Jews, and specifically history as it is taught to that world.
 
what the heck does this have to do with the topic, other than suggesting that "the jews" somehow had it coming?

It explains the way people were thinking in relation to the situation and the historical referencing and documentation which they were exposed to at that time.

It explains that if you regard someone different from yourself based on beliefs in such things as affixed god ideas and no small amount of lying attached to those ideas and what happens when lies are told often enough to people who are easily led to understand that they have been seriously disadvantaged by those lies, then ways will be found to deal with the perceived problem.

Wherever the lies can be differently sourced they share a common tie. They are all lies.

There is no integral justification for acting out under the influence of one set of lies in order to set upon something else influenced by another set of lies.

The point being that if it can be understood for what it is, and how it came to eventuate it can be more easily forgiven.

However I do not myself get the impression anything is forgiven due to the guilt and shame which somehow silences the need for honest self examination, whether that examination is one individual or one culture or one political system, religion, or country and without the honest self examination there can be no way forward in relation to forgiveness.

So it is not about saying in this case that anyone deserved or asked for what they got.

Essentially the Jews inherited it from their own history, which is found to be wanting in relation to their particular god ideas which unfortunately have spread into society due to the nature of the lie itself.

Sure there may be differences in small type policy and focus upon parts of the lie, but at the helm sits an imposing image of 'the god of humans' which was brought into the world via Judaism - and further elaborated on by Christianity and Islam.

Now there are any number of threads on this message board which are obviously not sparing the rod when it comes to the evils of Christian and Islamic influence but a strange silence prevails when it comes to calling out Judaism for its part in the whole lie. Perhaps it is done indirectly so as not to offend the Jew or risking the label of being anti semitic... but if anything has to be said, it has to be said about the whole rather than the parts, if for nothing else than clarity and to show one is not accepting of one thing over another when those things are essentially the same.

Also it might possibly be mistaken that those doing the complaining about Christianity and Islam whilst keeping quite about the Jewish connection might themselves be of Jewish decent...**** like that happens all the time...
 
I could not explain it like a Rabbi could. Plus, you appear to have a monolithic image of Jews which is false. The only antidote is to converse with real, actual, believing Jews.

You are attempting to suggest that real actual believing Jews have more than one god?
 
Going back to the OP... Did the world forgive Germany?

Half the country was given over to the Soviet Union for forty years. If ever there was poetic justice for the crime of Nazism, that was it right there.
 
Going back to the OP... Did the world forgive Germany?

Half the country was given over to the Soviet Union for forty years. If ever there was poetic justice for the crime of Nazism, that was it right there.

I'm watching the eighth disc of the series now, and it goes over Hitler's Reich from 1933-39. How it was established, swept into power far more rapidly than even the Nazi party anticipated, started making overt and subtle social changes.
Interviews with former Nazi Youth, an SS guard from Buchenwald, ordinary people.
It's very chilling but it helps me understand much better how they achieved so much in such a short time (though it's unclear how a broke Germany afforded things like putting millions to work and the build-up, along with a huge governmental infrastructure. Who paid for all those enormous parades??)

The final disc is about the Final Solution and I'm not gonna be able to handle that one for a while.
 
It's very chilling but it helps me understand much better how they achieved so much in such a short time (though it's unclear how a broke Germany afforded things like putting millions to work and the build-up, along with a huge governmental infrastructure. Who paid for all those enormous parades??)
Some financing from industrialist, but a lot of of deficit spending was involved. This was a factor in Hitler's decision to go to war six years early. If you want to look into the Nazi world find a copy of "Triumph of the Will", the great Nuremberg party rally is documented there.
The final disc is about the Final Solution and I'm not gonna be able to handle that one for a while.
I first saw that material 49 years ago. I still remember the first time I saw the ovens.
 
Organised religion. Old dead cultures who also had 'one god' concepts are not relevant, apart from being able to perhaps trace how the idea itself seemed to happen around the same time period as your source indicates.

Of course the history of the world is more complicated and involved a whole lot more people but the focus is specific to the 'World War' and those of that world which were involved in it, and specifically the Nazi Germans and the Jews, and specifically history as it is taught to that world.

Given the topic, Nazi Germans seems to be On Topic, but there were a lot more people involved in the war then just Nazis and Jews.
 
You are attempting to suggest that real actual believing Jews have more than one god?

He typed monolithic, not monotheistic. Personally I find my reading comprehension is higher with my head out of my goatse than firmly stuffed up it.
 
Given the topic, Nazi Germans seems to be On Topic, but there were a lot more people involved in the war then just Nazis and Jews.

Yes this is true, and they are mentioned in this thread.

The question being:

How can the world forgive Germany?

It is an interesting question but also comes with the implication that somehow the world is wrong to forgive Germany.

That in doing so this could pave the way for a repeat of Holocaust with the focus being on those called 'Jews' once more.

I think though that forgiveness does not led to such things. Does not open one up for more of the same.

I am still puzzled by exactly what qualifies one to be a 'Jew' but my particular frame of mind at present time is that a 'Jew' is anyone who is not the same as the one hating...the one doing the hating, the racist.

I know that this is not very correct, because it implies that Jews cannot be racist.
 
This is rather personal. I've very rarely shared this with anyone. Here goes. I heard this story twice from someone who was relating it decades after it had occurred, so my telling might not be 100 percent accurate.

When my grandmother was 18 or 19 or so, she rented out a room in her house in Legionowo, Poland to a middle-aged gentleman who was a retired lawyer and his wife. Grandma's father was killed by the Germans early in the war, leaving her the breadwinner for her mother and two younger sisters. I believe the people she took in were from another town and introduced themselves to her as acquaintances of acquaintances. She happily took them in.

The gentleman, though a very nice person, behaved oddly at times. One thing that should have set off Grandma's internal alarms was that he was devoutly religious and was constantly praying or praying the rosary. Another woman Grandma was renting a room to told her flatly "Those people are Jews!" Grandma defended him and tried to brush her housemate off. Her housemate hotly told her "I guarantee they are Jews! I'm telling you, they are Jews! They are Jews if I've ever seen any!" Grandma either didn't believe it or didn't want to believe it. Maybe she figured it wasn't any of her business. Maybe she needed the rent money. Maybe she was fooled because both the retired lawyer and his wife "didn't look it", being blond and blue-eyed. Maybe it was because she liked both of them and so couldn't believe that they were actually Jews. She had grown up with certain prejudices, unfortunately.

One day, she had the incredibly bad luck to have her home raided by German soldiers. A couple of teenaged Polish boys who were resistance fighters had hopped over her wall and trampled through her garden because they had a gaggle of Germans hot on their heels. They made a run for it into the woods behind Grandma's home. The Germans had pursued them to the walls of the garden and naturally assumed they had hid in Grandma's home. They burst in, overturned furniture, ripped down curtains and paintings and turned the house upside down looking for the boys.

The gentleman Grandma had rented the room to had an epic meltdown. He decided to confess right then and there, though they had not interrogated him yet. He told them he had been born a Jew but converted upon marrying a Polish Catholic woman. He begged for his life, telling them he was a devout Roman Catholic. That didn't save him. They searched him, patted him down and probably checked to see if he was circumcised (he obviously was). Then they marched him out, shot him and left to arrest my Grandmother, who was at work when all this had happened. (The man's wife arrived home later that day and was obviously heart-broken and furious at what had happened in her absence. She later moved out and went heaven knows where.) They also lined up all the numerous inhabitants of the house, adult and child, and interrogated them. They asked them to recite Roman Catholic prayers and asked them questions about the Roman Catholic faith. Thankfully, all of them passed the test.

They interrogated my Grandma for hours upon hours. They threatened to shoot her. They threatened to shoot her mother, cousin and two younger sisters. They threatened to shoot all of her housemates and even a few neighbors. They wanted to exterminate the entire house, as if the people inside were roaches. The only thing that saved her was that the man had told them he lied to Grandma upon arriving at her home. He pleaded with them not to punish her and insisted that she didn't know. These animals made Grandma sign document upon document attesting that she didn't know before they let her go. Because of this and the multitude of other horrors that she experienced during the occupation, my Grandma is still somewhat mentally unhinged to this day. She was never the same, as you can imagine. She's ninety years old now and is still living with what happened during the war.

Do I personally forgive them for nearly killing my entire family? And me, decades before I was even born? Yes. I grew up with an enormous dislike (a downright hatred) of both Germans and Russians, for obvious reasons, but am over it now. This hatred was instilled in me by my parents and others in early childhood. It lasted well into my teens- it was very strong and robust in adolescence- but I've gotten over it as an adult. I'm long past it now.

Does my Grandmother forgive them? I honestly don't know. I never asked her. But I wouldn't be surprised if she said "No, never".
 
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Going back to the OP... Did the world forgive Germany?

Half the country was given over to the Soviet Union for forty years. If ever there was poetic justice for the crime of Nazism, that was it right there.

As we are back with the OP can someone have a go at a working definition of the words 'world' and 'Germany' in the context of this discussion? I can't get my head around either. 'Forgive' I think I can manage.
 
He typed monolithic, not monotheistic. Personally I find my reading comprehension is higher with my head out of my goatse than firmly stuffed up it.

The **** you say at me confirms otherwise.

Still I am more confused now that the misreading of the word has been shown me. I appear to have a view that Jews are one thing? I only understand that Jews call themselves Jews for some reason and am unaware that there would be more than one reason.

Certainly when it comes to the holocaust Jews do not speak of it as lots of different Jews being exterminated. Nor do they say "Hi - I am a Jew, but not a Jew like that Jew".
 
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As we are back with the OP can someone have a go at a working definition of the words 'world' and 'Germany' in the context of this discussion? I can't get my head around either. 'Forgive' I think I can manage.

I have to agree. Forgiveness seems the easiest thing to come to terms with in understanding the concept.

I can't even tell the difference between anti theist and anti semitic.

ETA:

One definition of 'semitic'
1. A Semitic word or idiom.
2. Semitic traits, attributes, or customs.
3. A policy or predisposition in favor of Jews.

Semitism
1. Semitic characteristics, esp. the ways, ideas, influence, etc., of the Jewish people.
2. a word or idiom characteristic of a Semitic language, esp. of Hebrew.

1. the state or quality of being Jewish.
2. anything typical or characteristic of Judaism, as customs, beliefs, influence, etc.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Semitism
 
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